Developers posts on forum

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12890307

Grillo_Parlante, on Aug 04 2021 - 04:50, said: In a game like Magic the gathering, or any table top game for that matter, there is a substantial setup time associated with gaming.  If you're drafting, there could be a 15-30 minute setup time associated with everyone drafting and building their deck.      When you have that kind of time investment, the qualitative experience of playing the game becomes very, very important.  People play games for different reasons: some want to be competitive, some are purely casual, others want to be creative.  Whatever the players' subjective reason for playing the game, it should be satisfied, they should feel the 15-30 minute setup time was worth it.  Even if they lose, they have to feel that the experience of playing the game, warranted the effort put into the preparation.  This experience is rooted in subjectivity, not logic, is in constant flux, and can't be effectively expressed by numbers.  


Mojo_Riesing, on Aug 04 2021 - 18:25, said:   Well, you're not hearing that from me.  Do you think any changes to Match-making might be beneficial?

Subject: t57 is not equal to kranvagn
Link on message: #12890284

Subject: Kunze Panzer Load out
Link on message: #12890273

TheRealSerapth, on Aug 04 2021 - 15:00, said: 1 Klaus is a bit of an idiot and probably doesn’t understand bush mechanics and double bushing, so take his commentary with a giant grain of salt.   2 There are almost zero tanks outside of straight redline sniper TDS where net is a good idea in EQ 2.0 world.       It was probably a full concealment crew, combined with a knowledgeable player and maybe a directive.

Subject: Lowe could have had 12.8 and 15 cm
Link on message: #12890271

Subject: Help buying token tank: Char Futur, obj.777 or AE Phase 1
Link on message: #12890269

Subject: Tier 8 tank's versus T95 & Tier 10 tanks
Link on message: #12890267

mr_andersen77, on Aug 03 2021 - 11:46, said: As a new playing that just hit tier 8. i have hit a wall that is most painful and that is the tank T95. no matter what shell i use or what part i shoot at it ( but for the reer ) i do 0 dmg. I can't even track it when i shoot at the track's.. this leads to the matchmaking problem or the rework of the T95 armor. first matchmaking why put tier 8 tanks in a game with tier 10 tanks were they cant dmg thim. this put's the player in a bad spot in two ways. One they cant help the team much when facing them and the teammates start to get mad and show it in chat. Two his is such a ( Pain-Wall ) for them to players to upgrade or move to the next tier tank.    Ok lets talk about reworking the T95 it self. Being i just hit tier 8 tanks and starting to face tier 9/10 tanks i know i can dmg most of them when i see a weak spot. thow the T95 has 0 weak spots that my tier 8 tank and fiend, not front, not side, or the track, but just the top and back. first lets talk about why some tier 8 tanks can't track the T95. if i can track a super conqueror why cant i track the T95? i don't know. maybe someone know and can let me know. i am not saying to strip its armor down to much. i don't see why it can't be low a nuff for it to take some dmg from tier 8 tanks in the front of the T95 or it's side too.    Please take the time to look through the eyes of a new player like myself that just has 143 hours played and started on 7/28/21. i know there is a lot i still have to learn and i don't know. But this is the only thing  taking the fun i am having out of it,,,  

Subject: Tier 8 tank's versus T95 & Tier 10 tanks
Link on message: #12890267

mr_andersen77, on Aug 03 2021 - 11:46, said: As a new playing that just hit tier 8. i have hit a wall that is most painful and that is the tank T95. no matter what shell i use or what part i shoot at it ( but for the reer ) i do 0 dmg. I can't even track it when i shoot at the track's.. this leads to the matchmaking problem or the rework of the T95 armor. first matchmaking why put tier 8 tanks in a game with tier 10 tanks were they cant dmg thim. this put's the player in a bad spot in two ways. One they cant help the team much when facing them and the teammates start to get mad and show it in chat. Two his is such a ( Pain-Wall ) for them to players to upgrade or move to the next tier tank.    Ok lets talk about reworking the T95 it self. Being i just hit tier 8 tanks and starting to face tier 9/10 tanks i know i can dmg most of them when i see a weak spot. thow the T95 has 0 weak spots that my tier 8 tank and fiend, not front, not side, or the track, but just the top and back. first lets talk about why some tier 8 tanks can't track the T95. if i can track a super conqueror why cant i track the T95? i don't know. maybe someone know and can let me know. i am not saying to strip its armor down to much. i don't see why it can't be low a nuff for it to take some dmg from tier 8 tanks in the front of the T95 or it's side too.    Please take the time to look through the eyes of a new player like myself that just has 143 hours played and started on 7/28/21. i know there is a lot i still have to learn and i don't know. But this is the only thing  taking the fun i am having out of it,,,  

Subject: "Fall back!"
Link on message: #12890264

Kailen4, on Aug 03 2021 - 23:10, said: The sad thing is, these radio commands *ARE* useful.  Right up until idiots start spamming them.  At that point you can no longer trust them, and they're just something to distract you during the game.

Subject: "Fall back!"
Link on message: #12890264

Kailen4, on Aug 03 2021 - 23:10, said: The sad thing is, these radio commands *ARE* useful.  Right up until idiots start spamming them.  At that point you can no longer trust them, and they're just something to distract you during the game.

Subject: Tier 8 tank's versus T95 & Tier 10 tanks
Link on message: #12890172

Subject: August Heat: Things Are Getting Hot!
Link on message: #12890166

Subject: August Heat: Things Are Getting Hot!
Link on message: #12890166

Subject: Anyone using a paid VPN to reduce ping time?
Link on message: #12890161

Subject: Kunze Panzer Load out
Link on message: #12890148

Subject: Can we please go back to when arty was nerfed...
Link on message: #12890010

Subject: Refunding Premium tanks: HE Rework based on feedback
Link on message: #12889985

uberdice, on Aug 04 2021 - 01:11, said: An interesting point to consider here is that, if the "refund" entails giving the tank back to Wargaming in exchange for your money back, how do you also give back the time you spent enjoying the tank before the rework? How is that time valued? Would the time value be pro-rataed for every refund requestor? If the "fun" isn't refundable, then wouldn't it follow that you didn't actually purchase a tank, you simply put up collateral to borrow it, in which case, what's the "interest" that WG can take out of the refunded amount?   And if WGNA shut down tomorrow, would you be entitled to the same refund for the tanks you've bought?   Remember that this is money you've spent on entertainment. This isn't an asset for you to get an ROI on.


_Tsavo_, on Aug 04 2021 - 01:15, said: Outside of the KV-2r, what other premium has an HE main?  I can't think of any where HE is not a tertiary ammunition choice.


GSOR3301_AVR_FS, on Aug 04 2021 - 03:25, said:   Still waiting for an answer on this one. Every one I've seen mentioned in previous topics is either tanks that would be worse firing HE (SU-100Y, KV-5, ISU-152K), or tanks that got buffed as a result of the HE Changes (HWK 30, Senlac).

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12889928

Mojo_Riesing, on Aug 04 2021 - 00:38, said:
What am saying is that either way, many players assess that to be an imbalance in THAT match.  Some players feel they see that often, too often.  What i take you to say is that over time, thousands of matches it all evens out because the math tells you so.  I believe you sincerely mean that but what you don't understand is that while that might be how you are wired...many others are not. That's why all your graphs and number fail to convince that group of people.  Its like two different languages are being spoken.
 


DeviouslyCursed, on Jul 29 2021 - 23:39, said:   Ok, this is much better. I don't use data to determine whether Random MM is "fair" or not, that's used mostly to go against the "it's rigged" nutters.   Fair is a subjective thing. As I have pointed out multiple times, both Random MM and SBMM are each fair in the own way, and also unfair in their own way. Someone stating one is fair is an idiot if he doesn't expect the other side to come back with the opposing statement. You won't get anywhere because it is subjective. So because both are fair and also unfair, what should be discussed is the positives and negatives each side comes with, and whether it is worth changing the MM.   This is where I have an issue with the SBMM fans. Most of them think it will fix steamroll/blowout/landslide battles. It will not. This is where the data comes in to play. This is where science and statistics matter, and "feels" should get thrown into the garbage. I don't care how hard one thinks steamrolls are caused by skill disparity, I don't care if they "feelz it in their bones" that it is true. It simply is not true. No changes to MM will fix this issue. Period.   The other thing that is brought up is the skill mismatch games. Here again the SBMM argue in a dishonest fashion, calling them "certain wins/losses" when all data shows that they are not. The underdogs win some of the fights. Quite a few of them, actually. If you argue you want a challenge, nothing is more challenging than getting a team that's supposed to lose a victory.   The SBMM fans then say that the matches are not fun. This is Neato's specialty as he has the data, and he can correct me if I'm wrong, but his data indicates the games basically play out the same, regardless of the skill levels of the teams, whether similar or mismatched. This is why he says the only way someone knows if they are having fun or not is if xvm tells them it is okay to have fun in this battle.   You are basically telling us that data isn't going to fix the issues these players have presented. The problem is, SBMM won't fix it either. You are asking us to address a situation that simply is not real. Reality doesn't care if they think it's true. Reality doesn't care if they "know" it's true. Reality cares about what actually is true. The Random MM is not causing most of the issues they are complaining about.    The one valid argument against Random MM, is Win Rate differences. Good players win more under Random MM. This is true. But again, it is only a matter of opinion on whether there is anything wrong with that. Once it is pointed out that good players are not GIVEN and advantage, but create their own advantage by playing well, the SBMM proponent then inevitably goes back to one of the above arguments because they know stating a player doesn't deserve to win if they are playing well is kind of a prick thing to say. Also, they argue this despite the relatively tight win rate spread this game has already.    EDIT: Streaks, something players also complain about. Random has streaks. Many games implement pseudo-random number generator because of this (it prevents streaks of high or low results). Players tend to not be able to handle actual random when they miss that 95% chance to hit attack two times in a row. SBMM won't fix streaks either.   SBMM will cause issues. As I have pointed out, players will be more likely to play their best tanks, or as that one purple player pointed out, that means an increase in the most OP tanks in the game.   SBMM will cause win rates to tighten or go all the way to 50% (probably 49% if draws still count as losses)   SBMM will cause WG to have to reevaluate incentives for winning, because SBMM will allow you to literally do nothing and still get approx 50% win rate. If there is an incentive to do something else, say most damage on your team, or most xp, etc, then you bring in the same toxic gameplay that Ranked battles have, where no one gives a s*** about winning and just wants to farm so they can get top, or top 3 or whatever the cutoffs are.    SBMM will cause you to lose your ability to affect your win rate yourself. It will be a meaningless stat.   I like how under Random MM, my stats are mine. I earned them. The MM gave me nothing. I get to make something out of what everyone else is given. If the really good players get to win 1 more game out of 10 than I do, I am okay with that. They deserve it. If the superbads win one less game than me out of 10, I'm okay with that too. They also deserve it.       Neato has presented his data, told how he got it, advised others how they could do the same. There is your methodology. Other's have submitted their data too, and the results were the same. There's your peer review. Anyone and everyone is welcome to try it as well. No scientist is ever absent of personal belief or benefit/gain. Ever. Thinking researchers don't have a lot on the line when they are conducting their studies is naive at best.   As far as Neato's comments. Well, which response has the correct answer to 2 + 2?   A. The answer is 4 B. The answer is 4, you prick.   They both do. Adding an insult does not make the answer any less correct. It is still the right answer. The truth of his answers does not change. The accuracy of his data does not change. Yes, I know; those of simple minds get triggered and can't separate out the facts from the jibes when there's been an insult. It's part of why they can't arrive at the correct conclusion anyway; they're easily distracted. But that's really not our problem. Yes, I also know about the whole "but you can convince people if you use nice words!" position some try to bring up. That might work when people are on the fence, or in a different medium. But on internet forums, I think I may have seen about 5 people be convinced after an argument since about the year 2000.    This isn't a courtroom, where "truth" is what you can convince people it is and a person's life is then affected. Your position about how people perceive things, and emotional arguments matter there. But we're talking about actual reality. Reality doesn't care if you believe it, it is still true. Reality doesn't care if you like it, it is still true. Reality doesn't care if someone insulted you and hurt your little feelings, it is still reality.   People are crying about things they think are real; "The MM is rigged!" or "The MM cause blowouts!" It doesn't matter if these are emotional positions. The only way to refute delusions is with data. It doesn't matter if data won't convince them. That is their failure, not ours. It's not our fault they don't understand how reality works. It's not our fault they don't understand how the nature of evidence works.    When someone presents empirical data (you know, actual evidence) the only thing that can refute that is other empirical data. Feels ain't gonna cut it. Anecdotes aren't going to cut it either. Cherry picked data isn't going to do it either (lookin' at you, SimplySimple!). Many of those on the forum here don't understand that.   I've also said this before. But I guess I have to say it again. After a time, when it has become clear that a person does not care about facts, logic, reason, the nature of evidence, and they absolutely refuse to participate in an honest discussion, the only thing left is ridicule.    

Subject: Can we please go back to when arty was nerfed...
Link on message: #12889896

ATruk, on Aug 03 2021 - 15:15, said: This too is interesting. The earliest tech tree I found, 0.6.5 had SPG in it. So when the game title was released in 2010, it had SPG. Do you have some actual historical info to share?

Subject: What the best Equipment VK 168.01 (P) in 2021?
Link on message: #12889891

Trauglodyte, on Aug 02 2021 - 15:19, said: VK 75.01 (K) is way worse.  I bought it twice and hated it both times.  The combination of armor, size, and speed is probably better.  But, the reload essentially prevents you from playing it as a Heavy tank.  You end up being a worse T28 Prototype.

Subject: The GSOR 1008 Is ...
Link on message: #12889845

TheRealSerapth, on Jul 24 2021 - 22:55, said: ... a Lorraine 40t, except better in every single way.   It plays identically, same obscenely long reload, same 4 shot clip, except the GSOR is:   - More accurate - Massively higher pen on premium round - Faster and slightly more maneuverable - Higher Alpha - Faster inner clip - MASSIVELY better armor - Better camo (I think) - 3 Degrees more gun depression (this one is HUGE) - Both make credits poorly for premiums   So if you like the Lorraine 40t, you will love the GSOR.  It has all the same downsides but so many more upsides.  At this point I have trouble thinking of a reason to play the Lorr again now that I have a GSOR.  It's the exact same playstyle, exact same tank, just... you know, better.   That said, the game is really hard to play right now, as it's absolutely infested with GSORs and probably will be all weekend.   Oh, and if you are pure tomato and thinking OP tank will make you win, think again.  Both the Lorr and the GSOR are fairly hard tanks to play, if you want to do more than 1 clip worth of damage.  You need to know your map very well, be able to read the ebb and flow of battle to know when to push and when to hide for your reload.  It's also a pretty horrid redline sniper, so I would highly recommend against buying it for that, the rounds just lose so much penn over distance.  I mean, it works, but you're probably playing the tank wrong.

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12889827

2Fantastic, on Aug 03 2021 - 23:47, said: What neatoman is saying is that he used the best method available for determining skill, namely PR, and that it is pointless to have a contrary opinion unless a better method is determined.    And Mojo believes a better method could be determined, which may or may not be true. And for him to prove his point may require him to collect statistics that are unavailable to him, which doesn't mean he should accept NeatoMan's view.    Thus there was never going to be a perfect conclusion to this debate, which is good because that is how progress is made.

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12889758

Subject: How high can ping be before it's a problem?
Link on message: #12889744

Subject: Incoming! Make it rain when you buy something with Visa
Link on message: #12889596

Subject: "You just Roll with It, Baby..." 'cause the sky is NOT falling.
Link on message: #12889547

GeorgePreddy_lIl, on Aug 03 2021 - 03:26, said: There are "Chicken Littles" shouting the alarm whenever there is a major or even a moderate game change in the offing.   The sky never falls though.              

Subject: [Opiniones] Tu clan, tus soldados y el Mapa Global
Link on message: #12889544

Subject: August Marathon 2021
Link on message: #12889540

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12889419

Maniac57c, on Aug 03 2021 - 04:26, said: Yeah the whole XVM thing seems to be pretty toxic to gameplay I honestly only notice bad MM when it sticks me bottom tier multiple times in a row, aside from that I seldom even look at anything besides what tanks I'm facing    

Subject: Is this Really Random?
Link on message: #12889416

ImBonzo, on Aug 03 2021 - 05:48, said: This. Please quote your source as to where anyone asked for or wants to force someone to jump for them/us.
I have no problem being the plebe on my team and playing against better players (odds are most are), but I would like good jumpers on my team so as to have a "reasonable" chance of winning for the team. 
What are you afraid of? Facing your peers? Losing? Dropping that P/R?
And for all of you who argue "random means random," Random battles already are not random. MM controls and attempts to roughly equalize tiers and tanks. Why not skill? (see above)
Imagine the outrage if I and a bunch of other sucky players got tier 10 heavies and the better players showed up in tier 6 mediums.

There is a reason professional leagues have adopted salary caps. To level the playing field and not have a team made up of "all" of the best players (think back to the Yankees of old). That is what I hope for, but know it will never happen:
1) unicums, in general, seem not to want to play skill based MM,
2) if you frustrate the masses enough, maybe us lowly scrubs will buy more Premium tanks and boosters and... to hope to compete
3) while even WG may see an exodus of average players in part because of this issue in the long run, in the long run we all are dead. WG is laughing at ALL of us, all the way to the bank
 

Subject: Can we please go back to when arty was nerfed...
Link on message: #12889336

Edselman, on Aug 02 2021 - 23:35, said: KV-2 with the 107mm is not a good tank, the 152mm derp was what made it. Yes, it does get slightly better dpm than the T-150, but it is slower, a bigger target, and had weaker armor. A 107mm-armed KV-2 is easily weaker than both the T-150 and KV-85. 

Subject: Can we please go back to when arty was nerfed...
Link on message: #12889329

ATruk, on Aug 02 2021 - 14:07, said: That is interesting. Somehow I thought SPG were always in the game.

Subject: What the best Equipment VK 168.01 (P) in 2021?
Link on message: #12889324

coconut2011, on Aug 02 2021 - 11:18, said: Mauerbrecher is in no way the worst tier 8 premium heavy.  I think that VK 7501(K) is quite a bit worse.  The main reason is really that Mauerbrecher turret is at the front which makes it a lot more flexible.  And having 8 degrees of gun depression also helps a lot.  VK7501(K) in contrast is a lot more difficult to play.   This tank is about effective trades.  With 440 alpha and some chance to bounce shells, you can make favorable trades.  Just do not take on tanks in hulldown / sidescaping position.  A lot of time just flat out ignore them until they move out of their covers.  It is also a lot trickier than people would realize to hit its weakspots.  Sure, it frontal lower plate is a weakspot and its turret is flat.  The thing is, at close distance, one is too low and one is too high.  Mauerbrecher has enough armor that if enemy rush their shots, it can have really good chances to bounce these shots.  At longer distance, Mauerbrecher with good angling is difficult to pen.   The main weakness of the tank is really its difficulty against tier 9/10 tanks with high pen high alpha.  It is significantly more difficult to make good trades.  Against equal tier and below tanks though, Mauerbrecher is just fine.

Subject: More of Mahou being Mahou.
Link on message: #12889304

Copperhead310th, on Aug 03 2021 - 00:48, said: it's called due diligence. do your home work. talk to clans they have been in. plus it's no secret that the top clans know who ppl are. they see them in cw all the time. the top10-15 clans are on some kind of terms. you see them platooning together all the time. 

Subject: More of Mahou being Mahou.
Link on message: #12889293

Copperhead310th, on Aug 03 2021 - 00:38, said: Wow I can't believe this is still up.    Skytrain: I'd like to point out that this was not just a Mahou member he was an XO. In their command structure. Which is why I find it impossible to believe that they had no idea this was going on. If Mahou as a whole were not in on it, they were certainly complicate by looking the other way. And this guy isn't gone. He just changed to another account.    So WG wipes his account. Should have been an all out ban. That's the only way this bs stops. Start banning uni$cum clans on mass. one cheats, they all cheated.  This will  force them to police themselves. And fast.    Several of you have asked why this matters. it's simple. it's screws the average players. in multiple ways which have already been mentioned here so I'll save my breath. I've been busting my ars for years. not a great a player. but not horrible. Slightly average. but I consistently place in the top 3-5 on random teams. How am i to progress as a player when the tank I'm trying to mark is so inflated it's a virtual impossibility? The deck is already stacked. the fix is in. WG gives the  top clans/top uni$cum players the best tanks, free gold, free premium time, special equipment that regular players can't obtain. There by making it even harder. add to that the disaster that $crew 2.0 will be and ppl artificially inflating their stats by rigging...how are players like myself supposed to progress? NONE of these top clans will take on average players and help them "git gud" they don't have sub clans to help others improve. and they don't because they doing give an excrement about anyone but themselves.  In my il-2 sturmovik flight sim days I'd spend hours training new sim pilots the ins and outs of different aircraft. Better to train em up myself. P-40's P-39's even bombers. i did this because i gave to squats about the sim. the better the player base the better the competition. As a Ghost Skies League admin it was my job to find and match the best pilots/squadrons for league play.   Here they don't care. All that matters is stats. And they are all chasing one dude. Dodoma and his 12,293 P/R. And that's why they were rigging.    I've been screaming for player skill based mm for years. And this only enforces that belief. You wouldn't send a pee wee football team out to play the University of Alabama on sat. Why send low stat players into Randoms to fight vs these kinds of stat [edited]. Let them all go beat on each other. and leave the rest of us to enjoy the game. then it wont matter how much they rig or cheat.    I am also not surprised by all the other purple uni$cum piling in here to defend them. Actually expected the 1st post after mine to be one.   

Subject: More of Mahou being Mahou.
Link on message: #12889227

Copperhead310th, on Aug 03 2021 - 00:38, said:   So WG wipes his account. Should have been an all out ban. That's the only way this bs stops. Start banning uni$cum clans on mass. one cheats, they all cheated.  This will  force them to police themselves. And fast.     

Subject: More of Mahou being Mahou.
Link on message: #12889223

Casual_Boops, on Aug 02 2021 - 21:20, said:   Clumping all good players in this group of "they must be all cheating" reeks to me of the thought process of "anyone better than me must be cheating".... Which in turn tells me where on the Dunning-Kruger chart you must be stuck.. I'm sorry to hear that. I'm sure there are stat padders out there in some of the top clans rigging marks and stats, but overall poor play would be exposed in competitive play over time. From what I've seen, almost every person in a top clan earns their spot on the roster by being either good at the game, or good at chipping the map.

Subject: It’s Back! Monthly Selfless Tanker Contest (FKA Selfless Samaritan) with...
Link on message: #12889162

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12889155

Cupujoe, on Aug 02 2021 - 22:38, said: I didn't realize that you were the expert on what is fun.  To me the most fun in the game is when you pull out a win against all odds.  If every battle was evenly matched it would quickly become boring. 

Subject: I think this is true
Link on message: #12889136

yruputin, on Aug 02 2021 - 21:33, said: Wargaming servers are fubar;especially after the DEATH of the West server with Meathead,game wisewargaming couldn't possibly keep up with all cheaters except maybe the one's that steal gold:\4x brings out the big clans and their stolen reward tanks:\   Heck I will still play th

Subject: Is this Really Random?
Link on message: #12889134

Mojo_Riesing, on Aug 02 2021 - 19:54, said:   Maybe.  Then again, if enough players DID go to PvE modes....what will the rest of you do?  Play your peers?  Oh yah,  right!! LOL, you'll love that.

Hm...kind of like SBMM huh?  How long do you think Random matches will last if 70% of players desert for PvE?

Ah, the Law of Unintended Consequences..


Jer1413, on Aug 02 2021 - 21:00, said:     Where did he say that PvE is what he wanted?