Developers posts on forum

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12886732

Death_on_2_Treads, on Jul 29 2021 - 23:05, said:  It might be, but right now the high win rate is a result of imbalance in match that allow them to win more since they are put into battles where they are the better player. They don't face a like counterpart, which just allows them to dominate a field of lesser opponents.

Subject: Crew 2.0 and Field Modifications will be a great addition
Link on message: #12886709

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12886697

Death_on_2_Treads, on Jul 29 2021 - 12:15, said:   Stacking one team with skill against a far less equal team is not fair, and is a poorly made match. Just by saying that eventually, over time, you will be on the team with the most skill, and it'll all even out, is not fair either, because that is also a poorly made match. Both those matches are wrong, and two wrongs don't make a right. 

Subject: Why? Defender vs 252U
Link on message: #12886693

Dishonest_John, on Jul 29 2021 - 13:08, said: Key words here in your musings - "I'm guessing". Exactly. Which leads me to believe you just wanted to call other players "baddies" to have your back rubbed by the other insecure girls?



 

Subject: Update 1.14: Common Test - Round 3 - Feedback
Link on message: #12886596

Subject: Update 1.14: Common Test - Round 3 - Feedback
Link on message: #12886596

Subject: Something Positive: Tier 5 is a lot of fun
Link on message: #12886573

GaryPoole, on Jul 15 2021 - 15:04, said: Amidst all the negativity that is the standard for the WOT forum, I thought I'd share a little positivity: playing Tier 5 can be a lot of fun.   The battles are much more accommodating of noob mistakes, the costs are much more reasonable, and there are a lot of fun and interesting tanks to choose from. I'd been grinding to "get to the 'good' tiers" and was making myself miserable. So I decided to just play Tier 5 this past week, and amazingly enough, the game is fun again.    And it's not like I'm suddenly a Tier 5 unicom. I've had a 52% winrate with an average damage of about 900 playing a mix of heavies and TD's over the past seven days. Yeah, it's better than average, but not super purple level of play. It's just a lot more relaxing to play for fun instead of spending all day yelling at the computer and beating myself up for playing stupidly.    And for all you upper tier players: you're welcome. One less tomato for you to get frustrated with playing above their ability. 

Subject: Something Positive: Tier 5 is a lot of fun
Link on message: #12886573

GaryPoole, on Jul 15 2021 - 15:04, said: Amidst all the negativity that is the standard for the WOT forum, I thought I'd share a little positivity: playing Tier 5 can be a lot of fun.   The battles are much more accommodating of noob mistakes, the costs are much more reasonable, and there are a lot of fun and interesting tanks to choose from. I'd been grinding to "get to the 'good' tiers" and was making myself miserable. So I decided to just play Tier 5 this past week, and amazingly enough, the game is fun again.    And it's not like I'm suddenly a Tier 5 unicom. I've had a 52% winrate with an average damage of about 900 playing a mix of heavies and TD's over the past seven days. Yeah, it's better than average, but not super purple level of play. It's just a lot more relaxing to play for fun instead of spending all day yelling at the computer and beating myself up for playing stupidly.    And for all you upper tier players: you're welcome. One less tomato for you to get frustrated with playing above their ability. 

Subject: Most sensible thing I've seen about Crew 2.0.
Link on message: #12886547

I_QQ_4_U, on Jul 27 2021 - 02:53, said: Before all the panties get tied in knots, no I don't agree with everything he's saying but I do think he's shoveling the least amount of BS and using the most common sense I've heard yet on the subject with a lot of very valid points.      

Subject: Most sensible thing I've seen about Crew 2.0.
Link on message: #12886547

I_QQ_4_U, on Jul 27 2021 - 02:53, said: Before all the panties get tied in knots, no I don't agree with everything he's saying but I do think he's shoveling the least amount of BS and using the most common sense I've heard yet on the subject with a lot of very valid points.      

Subject: Why? Defender vs 252U
Link on message: #12886360

Mr_BushyBeard, on Jul 29 2021 - 05:59, said: More sample size for 252. The defender has a paint job that not everyone likes.

Subject: First Ace Tanker in the EBR 75 FL 10 after 10,059 battles
Link on message: #12886354

lordsheen, on Jul 29 2021 - 05:48, said: Thanks! I always try my hardest, and I am glad that I have finally earned this ace tanker 


DeviouslyCursed, on Jul 28 2021 - 05:21, said: I've never seen anyone so proud to be a prick before...

Subject: Why? Defender vs 252U
Link on message: #12886352

Subject: Is this Really Random?
Link on message: #12886321

bake3020, on Jul 29 2021 - 03:22, said:
Dude, don't care if you or anyone else believes it but it is a fact jack and nobody can truthfully tell you any different.  A so called random number generator is only as random as the person who programs it because they always, and I mean always put something of themselves in it.  Only nature is truly random as it's not made by man.  It's like you telling me that you don't believe this or that religious book that others do believe in simply because man wrote it.  But you you foolishly fail to keep in mind is the fact that all your educational books are written by man yet you will have the balls to sit here and try to convince us that they are right even though they also were written by men.  So that, in essence, makes people like you a hypocrite for believing one thing yet not another.  You can't prove me wrong and that's all there is to it yet will criticize like a politician, those that have a differing yet correct opinion.

Subject: Equipment on the Charioteer?
Link on message: #12886320

Subject: 25% RNG, the real issue with the game.
Link on message: #12886306

Posted Today, Earl_of_Grey With Arty and HE rework no one wanted

Subject: Is this Really Random?
Link on message: #12886296

umkhulu, on Jul 29 2021 - 00:33, said:   Enjoyment Fair Challenging Fun Level playing field Pleasure Delight Satisfaction Gratification  

Subject: First Ace Tanker in the EBR 75 FL 10 after 10,059 battles
Link on message: #12886289

DeviouslyCursed, on Jul 28 2021 - 05:21, said: I've never seen anyone so proud to be a prick before...


Brynar, on Jul 28 2021 - 12:45, said:   Lol, go back and read some of your own posts.


Death_on_2_Treads, on Jul 28 2021 - 13:03, said: Well said.

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12886287

Mojo_Riesing, on Jul 28 2021 - 19:51, said:
I've stipulated all along, though maybe not in every post, the "math" is correct.  I've also said statistics are only as good as the sources they are drawn from. This is incorrect. It doesn't matter who it comes from, what matters is the methodology. You are, again, trying to set up a "it's all biased so let's throw it all out" position.   I've also said that even allowing all of that to be correct, and lets just say they are, it's how we INTERPRET statistics that matters or is the problem. It's only a problem if it is done incorrectly.   I'd point out to you that while math is generally considered a pure science, statistics don't share that same distinction.

Neato, who has skill in these matters, still come thru with statements that indicate bias. Just because a person has opinions on things, doesn't mean the interpretations are biased.    That's ok, we all have bias but it moves you away from impartial truth to something else. It's moving away from the "scientific method" as well which I'm not sure you actually understand. I understand the scientific method just fine. If you think having opinions invalidates it, it is you who does not understand it.

It's like asking a political  question to assess statistically what people think about an issue.  Will it matter if the pollster is known to definitively in this or that political party or camp? No, what matters is the methodology (the wording of the questions, the area polled, even the order of the questions, etc). This is completely independent of party.   Conservative pollster or Liberal poster. Will you believe them both, or lean towards the one whose position you most agree with?  If they agree it's irrelevant. If their polls don't agree, then you look toward the methodology to see if you can figure out why there is a difference.   It's ok, because this is what people do all the time, including here.  What i've been saying here most recently is using a numbers solution to an emotional controversy hasn't been working and probably wont...ever. It's not an "emotional controversy." It is a failure of people to understand the nature of evidence.    Clearly MANY people feel MM is "unfair" and many point to skill.  SOME feel it is unfair. MANY think the MM is broken because of things that are not related to MM (quick battles, blowouts, their lack of success at the game, etc). They just lack the ability to understand this fact.    You see that "feeling" expressed in these Forums and often in chat while in game.   If you roll a 6 sided die 8 times, which sequence is less likely to occur? A. 3, 2, 5, 6, 4, 6, 6, 3 B. 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1 Most people will tell you B is less likely, but they are equally probable. More people believing something doesn't change reality. Reality doesn't care about your feelings or what you want.

Again, i do see issues for any form of SBMM though some more and some less.  I don't see any as "fatal" to the game, or even catastrophic.  I'm kind of personally ambivalent about how skills fit into MM and feel map design and Tier inclusion in MM are more significant matters to consider in re-working MM. That's my solution for you, forget about how skills work in MM and fix the other easy stuff first.  Other than that, i don't have to prove a darn thing at your command, because like most here, i'm contributing opinions and you being snarky about it is no incentive to do otherwise.  Acting like you don't have a stake in the topic doesn't exempt you from having to back up you position that Neato's conclusions are biased. You are making an assertion, and it is clearly one you can't back up.

So far as being tired, well, no one makes you come back here do they?
 

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12886266

DeviouslyCursed, on Jul 28 2021 - 19:17, said:       All players get the same 14 teammates and the same 15 enemies over time. Everyone is treated the same. This is fair. What you want is certain people saddled with worse teammates so that they don't win as much. This is discrimination. It is not fair.   Random allows players to EARN their Win Rate. SBMM FORCES a Win Rate that's equal.    


Death_on_2_Treads, on Jul 28 2021 - 22:31, said: Broken record.

Subject: Any chance they'll add an AP round to the Jumbo E2 105mm?
Link on message: #12886253

Collapsed_Eigenfunction, on Jul 28 2021 - 03:09, said:
isn’t that literally what a game is. If it’s not meant to be down time then it’s not a game, it’s a job?

Subject: OMG, free tank for my WOT birthday?
Link on message: #12886098

XOIIO, on Jul 27 2021 - 23:37, said:   Damn, that's awesome, cool to feel appreciated, let me fire up the game and...   Ah. Just another rental, at least this one appeared unlike the ones I was supposed to get from the prime gaming code where the store vanished after redeeming one thing so I missed out on a bunch of stuff.     I mean, I guess I should have known better, but they could have made it clear on the main page.

Subject: OMG, free tank for my WOT birthday?
Link on message: #12886098

XOIIO, on Jul 27 2021 - 23:37, said:   Damn, that's awesome, cool to feel appreciated, let me fire up the game and...   Ah. Just another rental, at least this one appeared unlike the ones I was supposed to get from the prime gaming code where the store vanished after redeeming one thing so I missed out on a bunch of stuff.     I mean, I guess I should have known better, but they could have made it clear on the main page.

Subject: too many PMs
Link on message: #12886065

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12886061

Death_on_2_Treads, on Jul 28 2021 - 14:01, said: Lets face it, you have almost as many posts as games. That should tell everyone something. This is your identity. You get some notoriety from your position amongst the random fanboys. You are the keeper of the sacred data.  Never mind it has been worked with a purpose, supported by hypothesis and assumption with a outcome in mind, you are all they have to support their otherwise weak arguments about how this flawed system is really best for everyone. Just stop with all the BS. You and those that support it are afraid that under a system that is fair, one where you face like opponents and even teams, that it would drop your currently artificially inflated stats and win rate to those of a mere mortal. You could no longer boast about being great (well, not you specifically, but others) . You support random because it allows you an advantage that you wouldn't otherwise have, and anyone with half a brain can figure that out. We don't really need to discuss the "why and how" of this anymore because its all been done, to look at your manipulated stats and formulas as your try desperately to convince the many that a bad gaming experience is OK because it benefits the few. I don't buy it, and neither do many of the people on here. It isn't because they are "bad at math or logic (and the game)". 


Death_on_2_Treads, on Jul 28 2021 - 15:53, said: Yeah, its not jealously, although I commend you on doing what you always do, misdirection. Its about fairness and equality. You like a world where some people get an advantage, and that advantage leads to better win chance and better stats. It a world where battles started out roughly even, those wins and stats would decrease. it is therefore a fact, not jealously, that under the current system those stats are artificially inflated by the unfairness of the system. I would be on the losing end of that equation too, so jealous isn't my motive. Fairness is. I can live in world with better battles, less blowouts, and even teams at the start much better then the crap we have now. You can deny that all you want, but until you can produce data THAT WAS DERIVED IN AN SBMM SYSTEM,  you are only simulating and guessing. Furthermore, you have a bias. Throw that all together and your data applied to SBMM is meaningless. Great work on the random data though, it does show what happens in a random system where 40%-60% of that battles are unbalanced crap. Thanks for bringing that to light.


Death_on_2_Treads, on Jul 28 2021 - 18:40, said: You said a lot that said nothing. When backed up against the wall, talk a lot,  tell people they don't understand, and hope no one ever nails you down. No one mentioned XVM.  The only thing XVM tells anyone is the win8 of a player anymore. It stopped calculating win chance when the name anonymity started. Stop with all the distraction BS. Its YOUR chart that says the better PR you have, the better the win chance you have, not XVM. Do I need to repost your own chart that says the better PR you have, the better win chance you have? Maybe you forgot about it? That is the advantage better players get.  Once the PR is roughly equal between teams, that advantage disappears. That's what would happen in SBMM, and their win rates drop. That is the advantage they want to keep, because more times then not in random  they end up on the team with the higher PR due to their higher PR. 

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12886051

Mojo_Riesing, on Jul 28 2021 - 15:56, said:   There are people who are very impressed by number, graphs and i'm sure 8x10 glossies with circles and arrows and paragraphs on the back i'm quite sure.  

Without a doubt Neato, you have an excellent command of numbers and are pretty good with spreadsheets and all that.  You also have a dog in this fight so to speak and your bias is clear especially considering the loose editorial comments you make about people who disagree. 

At the end of the day, i don't think you really influence anyone beyond those already convinced. This is after a TON of effort. The problem is that a lot of people see match after match right in front of them and they "feel" something isn't right. "Fairness" is basically a values concept and no amount of numbers you've thrown at it cut into the belief something isn't right. Telling them to in essence not look at it, doesn't seem like convincing argument either.  Being angry that folks don't "believe" isn't working either.

Like it or not, a LOT of things in life, especially sports and similar contests that are primarily entertainment,  must confront human feelings of fairplay and do so successfully.  People see that, know that and ask why Wargaming can't do the same.  That is why this goes on and on. 

Subject: Unable to start vehicle Crafting due to non-expired rental in Garage
Link on message: #12885944

DomoSapien, on Jul 26 2021 - 20:10, said: The second, less straightforward but potentially more convenient (depending on the number of remaining battles/days in your rental period) would be to submit a ticket to customer support and request the removal of your rental tank. 

Subject: Why Does MM Keep Stacking Teams?
Link on message: #12885736

umkhulu, on Jul 27 2021 - 19:37, said:   My challenge, my rules - would you like to accept?....  

Subject: MM
Link on message: #12885728

Subject: Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?
Link on message: #12885725

Maniac57c, on Jul 28 2021 - 02:52, said: Imagine what some future society would make of this thread after data mining it from the dust and ruins 10,000 years from now. Thy would conclude the 2000's were a time of snot bubble windowlickers and mental illness. And they would not be wrong.

Subject: First Ace Tanker in the EBR 75 FL 10 after 10,059 battles
Link on message: #12885714

Subject: First Ace Tanker in the EBR 75 FL 10 after 10,059 battles
Link on message: #12885700

Subject: You don't have to charge in when you're outnumbered
Link on message: #12885671

Subject: WG. Kindly explain this please
Link on message: #12885651

bake3020, on Jul 28 2021 - 01:20, said:
Don't post the replay.  These guys do not know that answer and they will make one up.  They most certainly blame you for what happened.  This is the reason I do not post this stuff here.  I send in a support ticket, include the replay, and ask for an explanation.

Subject: Israeli Tech Tree Proposal
Link on message: #12885648

_Panzerkunst_, on Jul 28 2021 - 00:22, said:  I'd def like to see the Merkava in the game, kinda reminds me of the Swedish mediums. 

Subject: WG. Kindly explain this please
Link on message: #12885642

The_Happiest_Husky, on Jul 28 2021 - 01:43, said: Click on the image to get full quality

Subject: WG. Kindly explain this please
Link on message: #12885638

bake3020, on Jul 28 2021 - 01:20, said:
Don't post the replay.  These guys do not know that answer and they will make one up.  They most certainly blame you for what happened.  This is the reason I do not post this stuff here.  I send in a support ticket, include the replay, and ask for an explanation.

Subject: WG. Kindly explain this please
Link on message: #12885634

omega3601, on Jul 27 2021 - 20:30, said: how does a shell fly through 2 soild wall and 1 shot me?  https://ibb.co/SKswdvg https://ibb.co/jDkLv5D    

Subject: Any chance they'll add an AP round to the Jumbo E2 105mm?
Link on message: #12885630

Subject: Any chance they'll add an AP round to the Jumbo E2 105mm?
Link on message: #12885628