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Subject: Skirmish 22
Link on message: #7266801
Link on message: #7266801
dance210: Skirmish
Rules Tournament
Page
Registration for entire tournament
Registration for bravo playoff (weekend) only
Looking for a Team/Players Basic Tournament
Information for Skirmish 22: Please see tournament
page for all information Team Size:
6 combatants + 3 reserves Map Pool: Steppes Mode: Standard
Tier Point Limit: 46 Tier Limits: This represents the max tier
allowed. Teams are allowed to bring lower tiers. Light: Tier
8 Medium: Tier 8 Heavy: Not allowed TD: Not allowed SPG: Not
allowed Special Restrictions: No more than 3 autoloader tanks
allowed (medium + light tanks) Skirmishes now have
three days of group play (Monday-Wednesday) followed by a playoff
(Friday-Sunday). Teams can choose to play only in the weekend
playoff or participate in group play for better seeding and greater
prizing. After completing group play, a standings table
will sort all teams across all groups based on points earned
against points possible. Prizes are awarded at completion of group
play to teams finishing in the top half of the standings. These
teams qualify for the Alpha Playoff. All remaining teams qualify
for the Bravo Playoff. Alpha Playoff This playoff consists
of the top 50% of group play teams who will play for a larger prize
pool. Group play performance will determine playoff seeding.
Bravo Playoff This playoff consists of all remaining teams and
includes teams registering solely for the weekend. These teams will
compete for a smaller prize pool and the playoff brackets are not
seeded. Both the Alpha & Bravo Playoffs will use multiple
brackets holding a maximum of 16 teams. This means multiple winners
are awarded prizing for their standing in their respective bracket.
Teams and players may only register once for the skirmish.
Subject: Skirmish 22 - Looking for a Team/Players
Link on message: #7266798
Link on message: #7266798
dance210: Tournament
Page
Registration for entire tournament
Registration for bravo playoff (weekend) only
Forum Discussion .
.
If you are a player looking for a team, or a team looking for players, feel free to post here.
.
It is encouraged to say what tank(s) you have or are looking for, to make it easier to find players and teams. There are two separate registrations. State if you are interested in registering for the entire tournament (Group Stage + playoff) or only for the weekend (Bravo Playoff only).
.
If you are a player looking for a team, or a team looking for players, feel free to post here.
.
It is encouraged to say what tank(s) you have or are looking for, to make it easier to find players and teams. There are two separate registrations. State if you are interested in registering for the entire tournament (Group Stage + playoff) or only for the weekend (Bravo Playoff only).
Subject: T110's Second Summer of Love (And Tolerance)
Link on message: #7266686
KilljoyCutter, on Jun 02 2014 - 20:36, said: Dreadnaught. Thought some of you might want to
go through this article...
Link on message: #7266686
KilljoyCutter, on Jun 02 2014 - 20:36, said: Dreadnaught. Thought some of you might want to
go through this article... The_Chieftain: Some of the links are pretty good. See for example, the one
you get to from the dazzle camo link.
Subject: E3 Video Contest - Win a Type 59!
Link on message: #7266256
Link on message: #7266256
HBFT: Big thank yous to everyone who participated! Contest
submissions have closed and our video team is looking over all of
your entries to determine the winners. We will make sure to update
all of you the minute we get more information. :)
Subject: Anuncio importante
Link on message: #7266231
Link on message: #7266231
SchnellerDamon: ¿Que anda pasando? ¿Porque hay tanto rojo en este topic?
Subject: Ronsons
Link on message: #7265873
CombatCommandD, on May 31 2014 - 11:20, said: Yo Chieftain! I had a sudden start not too long ago. It's about the
M4 Sherman. What if the Sherman's high vulnerability was
because it wasn't a Medium Tank? Think about it for a
moment. Everyone that is. The M4 Sherman was designated a Medium
tank based on Weight and Firepower, right? Or something close to
it, correct? What if they didn't have a term back then for what the
M4 Sherman design really was? A term we now have. Multirole.
Think about it further. The M4 Sherman was very simplistic
and basic when it entered into service. So simple and basic it was,
it was easily adapted and upgraded into numerous different vehicles
and types for the next 20 plus years by a variety of nations.
You had a Sherman outfitted with a basic 75mm gun. The first
tank with a truly effective turret mounted 75mm gun. Up to that
point, things weren't looking that way for many tanks being
equipped with the 75mm gun. Yet, as the M4's production run went
on, the guns became larger and heavier, but the turret wasn't all
that different initially. Additionally, the suspension, drive
train, and more was also improved. Added to that, Shermans were
rolling off production lines with 105mm Howitzers in fully
traversing turrets. And that was BEFORE the 76mm was considered,
before the 17-pdr. was added by the British. Why else would the
British decide to add the 17-pdr. straight onto the Sherman rather
than just build a whole new tank or work out a full production
line? Most of the British Fireflies were done in Britain as opposed
to being shipped straight to them from America. Frankly,
it's late and this is bouncing in my head so hard, I can't sleep.
So if I sound disjointed, forgive me. But hopefully you can see
where I'm coming from. The M4 Sherman was a Multirole Tank. Not a
Medium Tank. Given the sheer number of variants, upgrades, basis
for other vehicles, and more, that when you compare the M4 Sherman
to German Panzers, especially Tigers and Panthers, you have to
realize that variation almost didn't exist among the German
vehicles. They were built for one mission and one mission only and
that was to be kings of the battlefield. The Sherman by contrast
was to be a Multirole platform able to answer what ever was tossed
at. Can't forget the DD Tanks too. If used in more calmer waters,
they would be a force to be reckoned with. As it was, there are
quite a few people that now agree it was the DD Tanks that
managed to get ashore at Omaha Beach that eventually turned the
tide, despite being bad conditions and heavy losses. German
Panthers and Tigers would have sunk like rocks in any attempt.
Link on message: #7265873
CombatCommandD, on May 31 2014 - 11:20, said: Yo Chieftain! I had a sudden start not too long ago. It's about the
M4 Sherman. What if the Sherman's high vulnerability was
because it wasn't a Medium Tank? Think about it for a
moment. Everyone that is. The M4 Sherman was designated a Medium
tank based on Weight and Firepower, right? Or something close to
it, correct? What if they didn't have a term back then for what the
M4 Sherman design really was? A term we now have. Multirole.
Think about it further. The M4 Sherman was very simplistic
and basic when it entered into service. So simple and basic it was,
it was easily adapted and upgraded into numerous different vehicles
and types for the next 20 plus years by a variety of nations.
You had a Sherman outfitted with a basic 75mm gun. The first
tank with a truly effective turret mounted 75mm gun. Up to that
point, things weren't looking that way for many tanks being
equipped with the 75mm gun. Yet, as the M4's production run went
on, the guns became larger and heavier, but the turret wasn't all
that different initially. Additionally, the suspension, drive
train, and more was also improved. Added to that, Shermans were
rolling off production lines with 105mm Howitzers in fully
traversing turrets. And that was BEFORE the 76mm was considered,
before the 17-pdr. was added by the British. Why else would the
British decide to add the 17-pdr. straight onto the Sherman rather
than just build a whole new tank or work out a full production
line? Most of the British Fireflies were done in Britain as opposed
to being shipped straight to them from America. Frankly,
it's late and this is bouncing in my head so hard, I can't sleep.
So if I sound disjointed, forgive me. But hopefully you can see
where I'm coming from. The M4 Sherman was a Multirole Tank. Not a
Medium Tank. Given the sheer number of variants, upgrades, basis
for other vehicles, and more, that when you compare the M4 Sherman
to German Panzers, especially Tigers and Panthers, you have to
realize that variation almost didn't exist among the German
vehicles. They were built for one mission and one mission only and
that was to be kings of the battlefield. The Sherman by contrast
was to be a Multirole platform able to answer what ever was tossed
at. Can't forget the DD Tanks too. If used in more calmer waters,
they would be a force to be reckoned with. As it was, there are
quite a few people that now agree it was the DD Tanks that
managed to get ashore at Omaha Beach that eventually turned the
tide, despite being bad conditions and heavy losses. German
Panthers and Tigers would have sunk like rocks in any attempt.The_Chieftain: I'm not sure I see any significant difference in role
between a Pz IV and an M4. Both were medium tanks designed for
general combat on the battlefield, although, yes, the early PzIVs
were actually closer to armored support guns. M4's vulnerability
was simply a matter of the amount of armour it could have whilst
still being mobile, both tactically and strategically. A
correction on your timeline, though. M4 was to have a high-velocity
cannon dating back to late 1941, the exact same date they decided
to try sticking a 105mm howitzer into it. It just took a long time
to get a variant acceptable to the US Army into service.
Subject: Error ortográfico (Carcialmente - Parcialmente)
Link on message: #7265817
Link on message: #7265817
SchnellerDamon: Gracias por encontrar el error.
Se los paso a los desarrolladores.
Se los paso a los desarrolladores.
Subject: T110's Second Summer of Love (And Tolerance)
Link on message: #7265802
Legiondude, on Jun 02 2014 - 17:59, said: Usually if I'm lucky enough to have a tank or have the option of
getting a tank for the On Track events I settle just for reaching
the next tier in the line
cmmdrsigma1, on Jun 02 2014 - 18:02, said: A light taink at tier 7 with a 240mm gun? That would be so
rediculously OP!!! :trollface: That aside, were there any plans to
mount something bigger than the 76mm on the T92? And would the M551
get 640ish damage or 850ish damage for it's derp? Because if
it gets 850 damage I can see an en masse abandonment of
french tanks if it were introduced.
Link on message: #7265802
Legiondude, on Jun 02 2014 - 17:59, said: Usually if I'm lucky enough to have a tank or have the option of
getting a tank for the On Track events I settle just for reaching
the next tier in the lineThe_Chieftain: Same here. But if I'm really aiming for a Tier X, the saving
of 2 million credits is a handy one. But I guess I'll settle for
the Type 61.
cmmdrsigma1, on Jun 02 2014 - 18:02, said: A light taink at tier 7 with a 240mm gun? That would be so
rediculously OP!!! :trollface: That aside, were there any plans to
mount something bigger than the 76mm on the T92? And would the M551
get 640ish damage or 850ish damage for it's derp? Because if
it gets 850 damage I can see an en masse abandonment of
french tanks if it were introduced.The_Chieftain: As far as I know, no, only 76mm was considered. I can't
imagine anything bigger fitting in that tiny autoloading turret.
Subject: T110's Second Summer of Love (And Tolerance)
Link on message: #7265620
ice101v, on Jun 02 2014 - 17:49, said: Also this happened http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/guns-open-carry-texas-harassment-marine-veteran I
think its even worse than that gun control politician smuggling
guns.
Link on message: #7265620
ice101v, on Jun 02 2014 - 17:49, said: Also this happened http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/guns-open-carry-texas-harassment-marine-veteran I
think its even worse than that gun control politician smuggling
guns.The_Chieftain: And, of course, those are the nuts who the anti-gun people
are going to point at as examples. That said, just being
a asshole isn't particularly dangerous.
Subject: Raseiniai Challenge - Looking for a team/players
Link on message: #7265590
Link on message: #7265590
Captain_Judo: Tournament
Page
Registration
Forum Discussion Registration is open for June's
Raseiniai challenge. If you are a player looking for a
team, or a team looking for players, feel free to advertise
here.
It is encouraged to say what tank(s) you have or are looking for, to make it easier to find players and teams. Good luck
It is encouraged to say what tank(s) you have or are looking for, to make it easier to find players and teams. Good luck
Subject: Raseiniai Challenge - Looking for a team/players
Link on message: #7265590
Link on message: #7265590
Captain_Judo: Tournament Page Registration Forum Discussion Registration is open
for June's Raseiniai challenge. If you are a player
looking for a team, or a team looking for players, feel free to
advertise here.
It is encouraged to say what tank(s) you have or are looking for, to make it easier to find players and teams. Good luck
It is encouraged to say what tank(s) you have or are looking for, to make it easier to find players and teams. Good luck
Subject: Raseiniai Challenge - Looking for a team/players
Link on message: #7265590
Link on message: #7265590
Captain_Judo: Tournament Page Registration Forum Discussion Registration is open
for June's Raseiniai challenge. If you are a player
looking for a team, or a team looking for players, feel free to
advertise here.
It is encouraged to say what tank(s) you have or are looking for, to make it easier to find players and teams. Good luck
It is encouraged to say what tank(s) you have or are looking for, to make it easier to find players and teams. Good luck
Subject: T110's Second Summer of Love (And Tolerance)
Link on message: #7265584
Link on message: #7265584
The_Chieftain: I don't think I'll make the STB-1. I have to grind out 310k XP.
Even if it's all free XP, I haven't the time to do it.
Subject: Raseiniai Challenge
Link on message: #7265493
DirtD0G, on Jun 02 2014 - 08:28, said: Do you NEED to have the KV-2, or can we run with all Vs?
Link on message: #7265493
DirtD0G, on Jun 02 2014 - 08:28, said: Do you NEED to have the KV-2, or can we run with all Vs?Captain_Judo: KV-2 is not a requirement, simply an option. But we do want
to emphasize that the KV-2 is the only tier 6 tank allowed.
Subject: Raseiniai Challenge
Link on message: #7265493
DirtD0G, on Jun 02 2014 - 08:28, said: Do you NEED to have the KV-2, or can we run with all Vs?
Link on message: #7265493
DirtD0G, on Jun 02 2014 - 08:28, said: Do you NEED to have the KV-2, or can we run with all Vs?Captain_Judo: KV-2 is not a requirement, simply an option. But we do want
to emphasize that the KV-2 is the only tier 6 tank allowed.
Subject: Raseiniai Challenge
Link on message: #7265493
DirtD0G, on Jun 02 2014 - 08:28, said: Do you NEED to have the KV-2, or can we run with all Vs?
Link on message: #7265493
DirtD0G, on Jun 02 2014 - 08:28, said: Do you NEED to have the KV-2, or can we run with all Vs?Captain_Judo: KV-2 is not a requirement, simply an option. But we do want
to emphasize that the KV-2 is the only tier 6 tank allowed.
Subject: T110's Second Summer of Love (And Tolerance)
Link on message: #7265492
LoooSeR78V, on Jun 02 2014 - 14:07, said: IIRC it wasn't planned to replace MBT
as a class, more like replace some MBTs in Iraq, simply because
mobility of Abrams tanks was not enough for chasing bad guys, while
Stryker could. Mobility in Iraq was more important than armor
of Abrams, capable of stoping APFSDS rounds that
insurgents didn't had or couldn't use. Occupation of big country
with limited amount of soldiers require from those soldiers to be
everywhere by driving fast to those place.
Link on message: #7265492
LoooSeR78V, on Jun 02 2014 - 14:07, said: IIRC it wasn't planned to replace MBT
as a class, more like replace some MBTs in Iraq, simply because
mobility of Abrams tanks was not enough for chasing bad guys, while
Stryker could. Mobility in Iraq was more important than armor
of Abrams, capable of stoping APFSDS rounds that
insurgents didn't had or couldn't use. Occupation of big country
with limited amount of soldiers require from those soldiers to be
everywhere by driving fast to those place. The_Chieftain: MGS was planned to be the replacement for all tanks in the
Canadian Army. A trip to Afghanistan managed to convince people in
charge that perhaps tanks do still have some uses over MGS.
MGS pre-dates Iraq in US service, the concept was originally to
give light units some more mobility and firepower. When introduced,
it was promised that no units with tanks would be replaced by
Strykers, and the first 7 units raised were, indeed, former light
infantry. Of course, the original promise has long since been
broken.
Subject: T110's Second Summer of Love (And Tolerance)
Link on message: #7265465
SpectreHD, on Jun 02 2014 - 17:02, said: Did you see Xlucine's original post? He got warned because a
mod assumed some chemistry term was an insult. Wish the mods would
be a better human being by coming out and apologising instead of
hiding and using the rules to edit/remove Xlucine's post here.
Link on message: #7265465
SpectreHD, on Jun 02 2014 - 17:02, said: Did you see Xlucine's original post? He got warned because a
mod assumed some chemistry term was an insult. Wish the mods would
be a better human being by coming out and apologising instead of
hiding and using the rules to edit/remove Xlucine's post here.The_Chieftain: I just had a chat with the mod in question. Mod was focusing
on the 'suck on' aspect, and presumed it an insult. Said mod
had no idea of the misunderstanding at the time said mod
removed Xlucine's post here. Mod has since been educated that
Xlucine's original statement was not, in fact, anything other than
an amused commentary upon game mechanics. Mod wishes to pass on
apologies to Xlucine for the 'suck on' post moderation.
Subject: Raseiniai Challenge
Link on message: #7264135
Hazlo, on Jun 02 2014 - 00:21, said: Question, will regular skirmishes still run at the same times the
weeks this event is going on? If so will there be any timing
schedule depending on how many games are being played an hour
before normal skirmish time? Just trying to figure out if we have
to choose between regular skirmishes and this event, or if we can
do both at the same time. Thanks.
Link on message: #7264135
Hazlo, on Jun 02 2014 - 00:21, said: Question, will regular skirmishes still run at the same times the
weeks this event is going on? If so will there be any timing
schedule depending on how many games are being played an hour
before normal skirmish time? Just trying to figure out if we have
to choose between regular skirmishes and this event, or if we can
do both at the same time. Thanks.dance210: Skirmishes will run as normal while the challenge is taking
place. Whether you decide to do both, or choose one or the
other, is up to you. Teams have an hour to secure the victories
needed in the Challenge before the Skirmish starts; if you think
you can do that then by all means sign up for both :)
Subject: Clan Wars Map Exhibition: Pearl River
Link on message: #7263603
Link on message: #7263603
Hypnotik: The round robin stages have come to an end, and it's on to the
playoffs. Group 1 saw
[GANGZ] make their first attempt at an Exhibition, however they
fell just short to the mainstay clan
[OTTER] and returning playoff competitors
[D-O-S]. We had another very close race in Group 2,
ending in a tie for 2nd place. Returning champion
[NTR]
showed their dominance again by winning every fight in both rounds
up until now, while there was a tie between
[SG]
and
[MYTH_]. Due to the head-to-head tiebreaker, SG moves on to the
playoffs for the first time. With
[ANVIL]
hot on their tails the whole time, we saw two former champions make
their way through Group 3.
[HAVOK]
and
[RELIC]
will move on to the playoffs representing Group 3. Last but
not least, we see two clans make their way to the playoffs for the
first time in Group 4.
[CAZA]
and
[-M-A-]
clearly showed that they are the top clans in their group, and will
move on to challenge those in the other groups.
Congratulations to the clans that are moving on to the
playoffs. You're all guaranteed a minimum of 10,000
and can double it with each win. The bracket is posted at the top
of this topic, so have a look at who you'll be facing off against
tomorrow. With half of our playoff pool being made up of former
champions, this may be the first time we see a repeat champion. And
don't forget, you're not only playing for the gold, but also an
entry into the Summer
2014 Clan Invitational Tournament. Good luck!
[HAVOK]
and
[CAZA]
and
[-M-A-]
clearly showed that they are the top clans in their group, and will
move on to challenge those in the other groups.
Congratulations to the clans that are moving on to the
playoffs. You're all guaranteed a minimum of 10,000
and can double it with each win. The bracket is posted at the top
of this topic, so have a look at who you'll be facing off against
tomorrow. With half of our playoff pool being made up of former
champions, this may be the first time we see a repeat champion. And
don't forget, you're not only playing for the gold, but also an
entry into the Summer
2014 Clan Invitational Tournament. Good luck!
Subject: Ordnance vs AGF: Pershing Part 2
Link on message: #7263409
S842, on Jun 02 2014 - 03:00, said: The 17 pounder APDS had substantially greater penetration (more
than the American 90mm too) than the 76 mm guns HVAP, but
started to have accuracy problems beyond 1,000 yards.
Also obviously, I look at the same data and feel that I would
rather face the Germans with a 17 pounder. So are they
coming, and if so when? (because if I turn a corner at
Ruinberg, and a heavy is sitting there, I sure would like to have
either of these guns to the current 76mm and inaccuracy problems at
1,000 yards won't matter.)
Link on message: #7263409
S842, on Jun 02 2014 - 03:00, said: The 17 pounder APDS had substantially greater penetration (more
than the American 90mm too) than the 76 mm guns HVAP, but
started to have accuracy problems beyond 1,000 yards.
Also obviously, I look at the same data and feel that I would
rather face the Germans with a 17 pounder. So are they
coming, and if so when? (because if I turn a corner at
Ruinberg, and a heavy is sitting there, I sure would like to have
either of these guns to the current 76mm and inaccuracy problems at
1,000 yards won't matter.)The_Chieftain: I'd argue that it started having accuracy problems at under
500 yards if British testing gave it a 50% chance to hit a
Panther's turret and recommended against its use at all over that
range. You don't explain, though, why it is that you would
prefer the 17pr. What is 17pr likely to achieve on the battlefield
that 76mm could not? Neither could reliably punch through the front
of a Panther at combat ranges. Neither had much chance against a
King tiger. Both were perfectly capable against Pz4, Tigers, etc.
There is a very, very narrow set of circumstances in which
17pr has a noticeable advantage over 76mm. And for that, you're
increasing your signature, have a slower lay onto target, slower
rate of fire, less accuracy, less ammo, (for a little while, almost
no HE), and, in Firefly, you also drop a crewman and machine gun.
If both tanks were available at the same time (which wasn't the
case, which is the true merit of Firefly), it would be an
eyebrow-raiser to take the 17pr, I think. as for when it's
in game, that's for the revs to figure out. The 3d models are made,
it's a matter of their slot in the release timeline.
Subject: Clan Wars Map Exhibition: Pearl River
Link on message: #7263328
themusgrat, on Jun 01 2014 - 06:55, said: Thanks for the brackets. Good fights to everyone who showed up last
night. It's unfortunate that teams not showing up are still in the
tournament on day 2..... Should probably be a rough percentage of
the initial teams that make it to the second group stage, then a
set number go to the 3rd day. Otherwise we still have to deal with
2 or 3 noshows, which is a waste of everyone's time. Alternatively,
up the prizes for the top 16 or something, and more clans will
apply and show up. I don't mean to complain really, not you admins'
fault people don't show up.
Tashen, on Jun 01 2014 - 09:35, said: That or make it so less teams advance to round two. If
you can make it to round 2 without even showing up that is sad.
Link on message: #7263328
themusgrat, on Jun 01 2014 - 06:55, said: Thanks for the brackets. Good fights to everyone who showed up last
night. It's unfortunate that teams not showing up are still in the
tournament on day 2..... Should probably be a rough percentage of
the initial teams that make it to the second group stage, then a
set number go to the 3rd day. Otherwise we still have to deal with
2 or 3 noshows, which is a waste of everyone's time. Alternatively,
up the prizes for the top 16 or something, and more clans will
apply and show up. I don't mean to complain really, not you admins'
fault people don't show up.Hypnotik:
Tashen, on Jun 01 2014 - 09:35, said: That or make it so less teams advance to round two. If
you can make it to round 2 without even showing up that is sad.Hypnotik: Usually this isn't an issue. This tournament had lower
registration than the others in this series have, which led to this
happening. If it becomes a bigger issue, it could become percentage
based or have a minimum point requirement in the future.
Subject: Raseiniai Challenge
Link on message: #7262914
Neblaz1, on Jun 01 2014 - 17:04, said: Another typo.
Link on message: #7262914
Neblaz1, on Jun 01 2014 - 17:04, said: Another typo.dance210: .... And that's why they don't let me have nice
things.... 
Subject: Ordnance vs AGF: Pershing Part 2
Link on message: #7262857
S842, on Jun 01 2014 - 23:08, said:
Really Kyphe, condescension is unnecessary. It matters not how long I have been on this forum, just as your lack of playing the game is irrelevant, as well as one's nationally. The statistics do not change. However, you could do with better reading comprehension. What I said in my post above was, "The 17 pounder was substantially better than the American 76 mm and about equal to the 90 mm in penetration", and you then refer me to accuracy tests - of which I have this to say. The 17 pounder APDS (a tungsten cored penetrator round), was less accurate, but it could penetrate not just Tiger I and Panther, but also King Tiger. The American 76mm could do none of these things at similar ranges. Put yourself in an M4 facing the Germans. You could fire your 76mm gun, make repeated frontal hits and not penetrate. OK, your gun was accurate, but you are dead. Now you are in a Firefly, maybe your APDS round is not as accurate, but a hit is a penetration and continued life. It is important to realize that both the American tungsten cored penetrator (HVAP) and the British tungsten cored penetrator (APDS) were in very short supply or unavailable. Shermans had a few rounds or none, British load out with APDS was 6%. The vast majority of rounds fired were the normal armor piercing ammo, called APC (Armor Piercing Capped) by the Americans, and APCBC (Armour Piercing, Capped, Ballistic Capped) by the British. However, in all cases the 17 pounder penetration was superior - APDS was vastly superior. Here are the penetration numbers in millimeters at both 500 and 1000 meters (that you failed to research) against RHA (rolled homogeneous steel) sloped 30 degrees. 500m 1000m 76mm APC (Armor Piercing Capped) 109 mm 92 mm 76mm HVAP 139 127 17 pounder APCBC 130 119 17 pounder APDS 204 185
Quote (that you failed to research)
Link on message: #7262857
S842, on Jun 01 2014 - 23:08, said: Really Kyphe, condescension is unnecessary. It matters not how long I have been on this forum, just as your lack of playing the game is irrelevant, as well as one's nationally. The statistics do not change. However, you could do with better reading comprehension. What I said in my post above was, "The 17 pounder was substantially better than the American 76 mm and about equal to the 90 mm in penetration", and you then refer me to accuracy tests - of which I have this to say. The 17 pounder APDS (a tungsten cored penetrator round), was less accurate, but it could penetrate not just Tiger I and Panther, but also King Tiger. The American 76mm could do none of these things at similar ranges. Put yourself in an M4 facing the Germans. You could fire your 76mm gun, make repeated frontal hits and not penetrate. OK, your gun was accurate, but you are dead. Now you are in a Firefly, maybe your APDS round is not as accurate, but a hit is a penetration and continued life. It is important to realize that both the American tungsten cored penetrator (HVAP) and the British tungsten cored penetrator (APDS) were in very short supply or unavailable. Shermans had a few rounds or none, British load out with APDS was 6%. The vast majority of rounds fired were the normal armor piercing ammo, called APC (Armor Piercing Capped) by the Americans, and APCBC (Armour Piercing, Capped, Ballistic Capped) by the British. However, in all cases the 17 pounder penetration was superior - APDS was vastly superior. Here are the penetration numbers in millimeters at both 500 and 1000 meters (that you failed to research) against RHA (rolled homogeneous steel) sloped 30 degrees. 500m 1000m 76mm APC (Armor Piercing Capped) 109 mm 92 mm 76mm HVAP 139 127 17 pounder APCBC 130 119 17 pounder APDS 204 185
The_Chieftain: OK, you apparently -do- have some reading ahead of you. Some
background threads to go through, both my OP and the subsequent
discussions. http://forum.worldof...man-armor-pt-1/
http://forum.worldof...man-armor-pt-2/
http://forum.worldof...y-tests-firefly
(Linked above) http://worldoftanks....Hatch_Firefly2/
http://worldoftanks....Hatch_Firefly3/
That should avoid your re-hashing old arguments. For
example..
Quote (that you failed to research)
The_Chieftain: Quoting 17pr penetration tables on this subforum is somewhere akin
to interjecting into a discussion between calculus professors at
MIT by demonstrating the solution of a quadratic equation. Every
now and then it's nice to be reminded of some basic principle,
but it's probably a reasonable bet that they already are aware
of quadratic equations. You're apparently making a fairly
fundamental wargamer error by looking at AT gun penetration tables,
picking the highest number, and saying that was the best. We
already know that 17pr penetrates an extra inch of metal using
regular ammo. So what? Tankers in WWII were shooting up Panzers
(amongst other things) on the battlefield, not Excel tables. Go
beyond the figures, and look at the practical application
thereof. That a 17pr APDS could, in theory, penetrate
a King Tiger, makes a nice footnote. It also apparently is an
irrelevant capability as there is no indication that it ever
happened. Maybe no KT ever met a 17pr with APDS. Maybe one did, but
it got the shot off first because Firefly was so god-awful laid out
inside. Maybe one did, but the APDS didn't penetrate as the tables
said they should (Damned RNG). Maybe one did, but the APDS round
which basically couldn't hit the broad side of a barn (Well, the
front of a barn, at least, which is about KT-sized) managed to
miss. Don't get me wrong, I never claim that 17pr was not an
effective weapon. I merely point out that there's a whole hell of a
lot more to it than penetration tables, and that taken
holisitcally, 17pr is neither markedly superior, nor a panacea to
the problems of dealing with German cats, even for Shermans.
Subject: Raseiniai Challenge
Link on message: #7262822
Neblaz1, on Jun 01 2014 - 14:19, said: I am sorry, one KV-2 is allowed?..... and only T4 lights? as seen
here.
LostMyMarbles, on Jun 01 2014 - 15:22, said: isnt a kv-2 a tier 6 heavy tank yet the restrictions are max tier
5 ????? 
Link on message: #7262822
Neblaz1, on Jun 01 2014 - 14:19, said: I am sorry, one KV-2 is allowed?..... and only T4 lights? as seen
here.dance210: You are correct and the OP has been fixed
LostMyMarbles, on Jun 01 2014 - 15:22, said: isnt a kv-2 a tier 6 heavy tank yet the restrictions are max tier
5 ????? dance210: Correct, it's a Tier 6 heavy. However, that is the ONLY Tier
6 that is allowed. If the limit were Tier 6, then ANY tier 6 heavy
would be ok - which is not the case. Does that make sense?
Subject: Skirmish 21
Link on message: #7262553
TheDutchDemon, on Jun 01 2014 - 15:23, said: I have a question. My team's captain accidentally submitted the
team for approval before we added our last member. I personally
cannot leave the team and start a new one to add the same people
and he claims to not be able to do anything about it. Is there
anything I can do?
Link on message: #7262553
TheDutchDemon, on Jun 01 2014 - 15:23, said: I have a question. My team's captain accidentally submitted the
team for approval before we added our last member. I personally
cannot leave the team and start a new one to add the same people
and he claims to not be able to do anything about it. Is there
anything I can do?dance210: I'll be sending you a PM in a few :)
Subject: Skirmish 21
Link on message: #7262422
Link on message: #7262422
dance210: As a reminder, Registration closes today. There are still ~50 teams
with the minimum number of players that are still Forming.
Team captains: if you wish to participate, please make sure to
Apply to Tournament, and confirm that your team in Pending
Approval. Thanks!! 
Subject: M46 Name Correction?
Link on message: #7261662
Dad_is_bad, on Jun 01 2014 - 03:17, said: Hetzer is German for "Baiter" it WAS called the Hetzer by it's
crews ,it was perfect bait for the enemy to move up on it , it
backed away and then boom it's friends joined in. There's
footage of captured German tankers calling it the Hetzer, this
modern history is just crud info. An M48A5 was almost identical to
an M60 but it wasn't.
Link on message: #7261662
Dad_is_bad, on Jun 01 2014 - 03:17, said: Hetzer is German for "Baiter" it WAS called the Hetzer by it's
crews ,it was perfect bait for the enemy to move up on it , it
backed away and then boom it's friends joined in. There's
footage of captured German tankers calling it the Hetzer, this
modern history is just crud info. An M48A5 was almost identical to
an M60 but it wasn't.The_Chieftain: Hilary Doyle is adamant that it is a post-war appellation,
it is not unheard of for even servicemen who used the vehicle at
the time to call them names which weren't in use at the time.
Witness "Sherman" and "Starship" for other examples. That said,
Spielberger makes one reference to at least some German soldiers
who used the name at the time. I choose to avoid the issue entirely
by only using official names.
Subject: Lose track 17 times in 1 battle. wth?
Link on message: #7261660
Link on message: #7261660
Yoott: Hi OP So you are upset because the T21 who shoots every few
seconds and has 0 chance to pen and destroy you alone repeatedly
shoots your tracks and keeps you pinned until support can arrive?
All while you have your entire track side facing to most of the
enemy on the isle as well as from their base area from which you
could have been destroyed. With that being said
17 tracks in a battle shouldn't happen, you should of died
much sooner with where you were sitting never reaching near
17. I would say that a kudos is in order to the T21
for doing his job and holding down your teams top tank and kudos
for the enemy team for finally supporting that effort and
destroying the pinned tank. Also some tanks transmission
systems are in the front of the tank so engine knockouts happen
when those items are destroyed/damaged.
Subject: Month of Clans: Discussion and Q/A
Link on message: #7261622
_xTerrorx_, on May 31 2014 - 00:07, said: Just out of curiosity, does WG understand how many battles per day
a clan will have to run to be able to complete the final objective,
"As a Clan, participate in a combined total of 15,000 battles
during the Month of Clans event."? Or am I adding things up wrong
lol. For a larger clan, this may not be to tough to complete, but
since the object here is to get new clans going, most will probably
be smaller clans, making this last objective damn near impossible
to complete. At any rate, gl peeps.
TK3600, on Jun 01 2014 - 01:53, said: Can we have a few alt account if we are creating a sub clan? Our
officers needs to be in control in case things go wrong. For
example, I need an alt account as commander in case of my officer
grabs gold and leave.
Link on message: #7261622
_xTerrorx_, on May 31 2014 - 00:07, said: Just out of curiosity, does WG understand how many battles per day
a clan will have to run to be able to complete the final objective,
"As a Clan, participate in a combined total of 15,000 battles
during the Month of Clans event."? Or am I adding things up wrong
lol. For a larger clan, this may not be to tough to complete, but
since the object here is to get new clans going, most will probably
be smaller clans, making this last objective damn near impossible
to complete. At any rate, gl peeps.Hypnotik: We have done the math on it. For a clan of 20 players (remember,
this is the absolute minimum to qualify for that mission) it's 25
battles per day for each member, which is fairly high, yet not
unattainable. For a clan of 50, that's 10 battles/day. For a full
100, that's 5 battles/day. This mission is more likely to be
done by the new social clans rather than the competitive clans, and
social clans typically will play more battles more often, and often
will grow at a more consistent pace. Look at some of the
submissions for the clans that qualify in the submissions topic -
several of them are pushing 30 members after just a week, and they
have all month to complete this challenge. If a clan is
unable to complete this specific challenge, there are 4 other ones
they can go after, and you only need to do 3 of the 5 to have a
chance at the big tourney this summer with some HUGE prizes.
TK3600, on Jun 01 2014 - 01:53, said: Can we have a few alt account if we are creating a sub clan? Our
officers needs to be in control in case things go wrong. For
example, I need an alt account as commander in case of my officer
grabs gold and leave.Hypnotik: Technically, it's against the rules. Personally, I'm less inclined
to really mind if it's just for administrative purposes, since,
let's face it, this is a pretty common thing. I wouldn't dq your
new sub clan for alts if it's just the commander.
Subject: Raseiniai Challenge
Link on message: #7261531
Link on message: #7261531
dance210: Registration is now open. Good luck guys!!
Subject: T110's Second Summer of Love (And Tolerance)
Link on message: #7261493
KilljoyCutter, on Jun 01 2014 - 16:50, said: It compares highly trained subjects in particular
situations, with the average person in an entirely different
situation. "Being stepped on is more often lethal to
rats than being stabbed with a combat knife is lethal to elephants,
therefore stepping on things is obviously a far more effective
weapon!" For a valid study, you'd need to get a
bunch of fighter pilots and riot police, and have them drive the
commute into London and back for a month, and then compare to the
results taken in the air combat / riot control parts of the
study. (Since you can't just take the average London commuter
and actually put them in a dogfight or in front of a massive
riot.) E: and what's worse, when this
study first hit the media, many of the taglines and headlines read
something like "Commuting more stressful than combat!"
Link on message: #7261493
KilljoyCutter, on Jun 01 2014 - 16:50, said: It compares highly trained subjects in particular
situations, with the average person in an entirely different
situation. "Being stepped on is more often lethal to
rats than being stabbed with a combat knife is lethal to elephants,
therefore stepping on things is obviously a far more effective
weapon!" For a valid study, you'd need to get a
bunch of fighter pilots and riot police, and have them drive the
commute into London and back for a month, and then compare to the
results taken in the air combat / riot control parts of the
study. (Since you can't just take the average London commuter
and actually put them in a dogfight or in front of a massive
riot.) E: and what's worse, when this
study first hit the media, many of the taglines and headlines read
something like "Commuting more stressful than combat!"
The_Chieftain: Right, but i.don't think that the study is saying "commuting more
stressful than combat", just "commuters more.stressed.commuting
than fighter pilots.stressed by combat"
Subject: Wargaming Brings E3 to You
Link on message: #7261417
Link on message: #7261417
Content_WG: We'll be streaming the event live all day from June 10 - 12. Watch
the event with us and win prizes!
Full news text
Full news text
Subject: Ordnance vs AGF: Pershing Part 2
Link on message: #7261299
S842, on Jun 01 2014 - 15:02, said: There is no research showing equivalency of the 76mm and 17
pounder. The 17 pounder was substantially better than the
American 76 mm and about equal to the 90 mm in penetration .
Rather than post up the statistics, I will let you do some
investigation of your own. But logically, British would not
have gone through the trouble of installing the 17 pounder, rather
than the available 76 mm, if there was not a great
advantage. Nor would the Americans have re-gunned 100
Shermans to the 17 pounder (following the Battle of the Bulge),
as they already had 76mm gunned Shermans. Penetrative
powers of the various guns will change substantially with the type
of ammunition, its quality, and if one is test firing on
un-sloped or sloped RHA.
Link on message: #7261299
S842, on Jun 01 2014 - 15:02, said: There is no research showing equivalency of the 76mm and 17
pounder. The 17 pounder was substantially better than the
American 76 mm and about equal to the 90 mm in penetration .
Rather than post up the statistics, I will let you do some
investigation of your own. But logically, British would not
have gone through the trouble of installing the 17 pounder, rather
than the available 76 mm, if there was not a great
advantage. Nor would the Americans have re-gunned 100
Shermans to the 17 pounder (following the Battle of the Bulge),
as they already had 76mm gunned Shermans. Penetrative
powers of the various guns will change substantially with the type
of ammunition, its quality, and if one is test firing on
un-sloped or sloped RHA.The_Chieftain: You bring up two different points here. The first is
"why did the US order conversion of four score tanks to 17pr?"
The honest answer is "I don't know" and.I have not seen any
documentation explaining it. The only two reasons which make sense
are either field trials or politics. There was no practical reason
to introduce such a small.sample of foreign (as in non-standard)
equipment and supplies. Certainly nothing which would indicate.a.US
conclusion that 17pr was particularly superior to 76mm. The
second question is "why did the UK not.accept 76mm Shermans (except
for a few specific instances) and instead.built Fireflies."
Several reasons come to mind, but, again, I have not seen any
documentation on the matter and will defer to the Brit researchers.
Two which immediately.come to mind are commonality with other
British systems, and the fact that Firefly could enter service
faster than 76mm tanks could be made available. There may also have
been a philosophical difference. The US procurement system did not
like half-measures, not did they like less accuracy even at the
cost of greater punch. The British may have balanced that
differently.
Subject: June 2014 Wallpaper and Calendar
Link on message: #7261196
Link on message: #7261196
Content_WG: The favored M4 Sherman is here to grace your computer screens this
month!
Full news text
Full news text
Subject: Ordnance vs AGF: Pershing Part 2
Link on message: #7260173
1SLUGGO1, on Jun 01 2014 - 04:44, said: When is sarcasm not condescending and not inappropriate?
Link on message: #7260173
1SLUGGO1, on Jun 01 2014 - 04:44, said: When is sarcasm not condescending and not inappropriate?
The_Chieftain: I would react more or less the same way if I handed a
non-functioning weapon to the armorer and the first thing he does
is ask me if I had taken the weapon off 'safe' before pulling the
trigger. There have been plenty of things which have stumped me in
this forum, but they are rarely things which are common knowledge
amongst tank enthusiasts. I like to think I'm somewhat competent at
my job, and that people would make that assumption about me.
Subject: T110's Second Summer of Love (And Tolerance)
Link on message: #7260167
Life_In_Black, on Jun 01 2014 - 05:46, said: Out of curiosity, could the Chieftain chassis with the T95 turret
be a viable tier 10 medium to replace the FV4202?
Super_Noodle, on Jun 01 2014 - 05:58, said: We haven't had a senseless thread name change in a while...
Tupinambis, on Jun 01 2014 - 07:26, said: Right around 10:00pm some of the worst pubbies that I have seen in
months all apparently logged on at once. The "Don't cap,
kill!" mentality that some of these people have has gotten me
fucked over way too often tonight.
Link on message: #7260167
Life_In_Black, on Jun 01 2014 - 05:46, said: Out of curiosity, could the Chieftain chassis with the T95 turret
be a viable tier 10 medium to replace the FV4202?The_Chieftain: Was it ever even remotely considered?
Super_Noodle, on Jun 01 2014 - 05:58, said: We haven't had a senseless thread name change in a while...The_Chieftain: You guys have been behaving yourselves for a while
Tupinambis, on Jun 01 2014 - 07:26, said: Right around 10:00pm some of the worst pubbies that I have seen in
months all apparently logged on at once. The "Don't cap,
kill!" mentality that some of these people have has gotten me
fucked over way too often tonight.The_Chieftain: The mere fact that Kolobanov's get awarded should be an
indicator of the fallacy of that concept, but no....
Subject: Clan Wars Map Exhibition: Pearl River
Link on message: #7259704
Link on message: #7259704
Hypnotik: Here are your groups for Round 2. Each of the teams listed below
has earned the 1,000
prize so far. Only the top 2 teams in each group will move on to
the next round, the playoffs. Good luck. Group 1 Group 2
Group 3 Group 4 Denial of Service
Baby Seals, On The Menu [OTTER]
Gangsterz
[CoTaB] Command Armored Tactics
Jimbo
Arbok's Finest
RDDT
DIVISION ACORAZADA FENIX
[ EARCT ]
SKNT П✞ℛ
Mythos
SturmGrenadier [SG]
Tundra
Villain
[70] Wulffepack Aelfrich
FNRIR
Silent Reapers
BooglyGobbers (PBKAC)
KING RELIC
HAVOK
CORVO
MME
ANVIL
Phantom Brawlerz
MATE
Death Krieg [DKAC]
Division Armada de México
Imperial GuardsPonyz 24th Pasteleros[CAZA]
Vandls
Reactive Armor [-M-A-]
No Peeking [NPEEK]
WINCHESTER
GAME-OVER
Amped
MAGI
Legionarios Latinos
MGL-A
prize so far. Only the top 2 teams in each group will move on to
the next round, the playoffs. Good luck. Group 1 Group 2
Group 3 Group 4 Denial of ServiceBaby Seals, On The Menu [OTTER]
Gangsterz
[CoTaB] Command Armored Tactics
Jimbo
Arbok's Finest
RDDT
DIVISION ACORAZADA FENIX
[ EARCT ]
SKNT П✞ℛ
Mythos
SturmGrenadier [SG]
Tundra
Villain
[70] Wulffepack Aelfrich
FNRIR
Silent Reapers
BooglyGobbers (PBKAC)
KING RELIC
HAVOK
CORVO
MME
ANVIL
Phantom Brawlerz
MATE
Death Krieg [DKAC]
Division Armada de México
Imperial GuardsPonyz 24th Pasteleros[CAZA]
Vandls
Reactive Armor [-M-A-]
No Peeking [NPEEK]
WINCHESTER
GAME-OVER
Amped
MAGI
Legionarios Latinos
MGL-A
Subject: Ordnance vs AGF: Pershing Part 2
Link on message: #7259169
Link on message: #7259169
The_Chieftain: This is more for S842 than OlPaint. We've been doing this a
few years. We have full-time historians whose job includes digging
in the archives for information, and a good budget for book-buying.
Not wishing to be too condescending, but It takes something being a
lot more obscure than 'easy to find on the Internet with a brief
Google search' for us to be unaware of it. In the case of the
M4/T26 combo, we even leaked the garage icon for it (the one I
linked to above). I find the idea that we may need to be 'informed'
of an obvious series of vehicles such as the M4/T26 or the Israeli
series to be a little insulting, and tend to react to such
suggestions with a little sarcasm. This game has a service
life of a few years left in it yet. It's obvious that there are a
number of vehicles and lines yet to be implemented, the (in)famous
ones being the British lend-lease line and 'real-world' TD line. I
can understand some disappointment that such vehicles may not have
been implemented yet, but I think it's a reasonable conclusion that
they haven't been implemented because we have specifically chosen
not to implement it yet, not because of any ignorance or omission.
Subject: T110's Second Summer of Love (And Tolerance)
Link on message: #7259117
Life_In_Black, on Jun 01 2014 - 01:29, said: Then why doesn't the match end immediately after that? It's
completely pointless to have another five seconds go by after that
exclamation point goes up.
Link on message: #7259117
Life_In_Black, on Jun 01 2014 - 01:29, said: Then why doesn't the match end immediately after that? It's
completely pointless to have another five seconds go by after that
exclamation point goes up.The_Chieftain: No, you can still deny the win by getting a draw. For
example, if it's a cap race and there's only a second or two in the
difference. I can't remember back to 8.4...
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