Developers posts on forum

pizzastorm:   Wargaming America
Honoring the Troops
P.O. Box 8250
Emeryville, CA 94662   400 cards would be more than amazing!  

Lert: Fair enough ...

Lert: If you really believe this, feel free to run a good sample size. Say, 500 games without and 500 games with premium, at the least. Compare average win prediction / result. One weekend worth of matches does not even start to indicate a trend.

Lert:  

Lert:   Then why are you two in this thread ... ?

Lert:   There are no tier 3's that I haven't XP'd through either by playing or free XP'ing, other than some artillery. Also, to elite a tier 3 doesn't take very long. Finally, we don't need a challenge to prove that stock tanks are worse than fully upgraded ones, do we.  

Lert:   It's more about the damage done, tanks killed and credits earned than wins, really. At 50 battles, team derp still plays a fairly significant factor in the winrate, but damage done, tanks killed and credits earned is still personal performance. Besides, newbies can platoon too.   Second battle: Ensk, top tier, solo play. Got swarmed from two sides, died, team carried to victory.    

Lert:   I said I would upload the screenshots of results, didn't I. This is a result of a match I did during the challenge. Anyways, this topic is about tier 3 play. Vs tier 5's is a part of that, but not the whole reason.

Lert:  

The_Chieftain: I'm going through every single document and testimony instead of looking at selected highlights from the news sites (or worse yet, opinion sites not even pretending to be news sites) . Believe me, this is going to take a very long while.

Lert: Main problem with the Pz II G is the reload combined with the relatively low magazine damage output. I've often found that you'll leave tanks at just a few hitpoints and very angry at you, at the start of your 16 second reload.

Lert:   Go do one yourself, I won't stop you.  

Lert:   The challenge will last longer than this weekend, but wouldn't be a good challenge if I specifically skipped weekend play.

Lert:   I have one, and while I can recognize that it's OP, I'm still having some issues bringing that OP-ness out ... I haven't figured the 76i out yet.

Lert: Why this thread?   Lately there have been a number of threads from players lamenting they can't do anything to tier 5's in tier 3 tanks. Frustrated players, who feel useless faced with tanks so far better than their own vehicles.   Do those players have a point?   Well, partially.   - Yes, the difference between tier 3 and tier 5 vehicles is very big. As is the difference between tier 4 and tier 6. And tier 5 and tier 7. And tier 6 and tier 8. And so on.   - Is the difference too big? Personally, I don't think so. At least, not from what I remember tier 3 being like. I think it's perfectly possible to exert influence on a battle when 'horribly' undertiered. However, that is speaking from 37k battles experience, knowledge of game mechanics and usually having more than enough credits and crews to outfit any low tier vehicle with a good crew and full equipment right off the bat.   As such I've decided to do the following challenge: buy a tier 3 vehicle, and do a number of battles with it.   Why this particular tank?   - I've never driven the Medium III (I skipped it with free XP when the tree came out) so this challenge will start from a clean slate - It is a tank one of the newer players lamenting the tier difference is having trouble with - It seems like a decent mix between mobility and firepower, lacking in armor but making up for it with a reasonably capable gun   My chariot of choice:     A fully upgraded Medium Mk III, with:   - 110 regular AP shells, 20 APCR, 0 HE. I've chosen to load a small amount of premium shells as I believe this to be both completely reasonable to do and affordable for newer players. 20 APCR set me back 24k credits, A reasonable sum when you're driving tier 3's, but not too much IMO. - No equipment, as I believe that newer players just grinding through a tier 3 tank wouldn't shell out hundreds of thousands of credits on equipment on it. - Small consumables. Run consumables on every tank. Always. No exception. You don't have to use them every battle, just make sure they're there for when you need them. - A brand new 75% crew (everyone but the TC is showing as 83% because of the commander bonus). This because I'm a human being, not a masochist. - No camo paint. A new player just grinding through a tier 3 won't bother with camo paint.   What will this challenge consist of?   50 battles, with this crew and this set-up. I will try to remember to take screenshots of every post-battle report, at least the tab which shows my shots fired, damage done and credits made. I have premium account, but those screenshots will also show the amount of credits earned without premium account, for people who want to know if you can still run a profit in this thing.   Will you platoon or play solo?   A mix of both. I don't know in what proportion yet, but likely no more than 1/3 of the battles will be platooned.   Why 50 battles? That is way more than anyone needs to grind through a tier 3.   Yes, it is. But anything less than 50 battles is way too small a sample size to show that a tier 3 is still viable in a tier 5 match.   Will you upload any replays?   Maybe. If it was a particularly good battle or something happened that I think I can easily turn into a good guide / lesson / teaching opportunity I might. If I get an ace badge I'll definitely upload it.   Anything else?   I won't be dedicating all my WoT time to this challenge and power-grinding through those 50 matches, so be patient for the results. It's going to take a little while.   No, really, why this challenge? You've always vehemently defended that tier 3's vs tier 5's is fine.   Yes, and I still firmly believe that to be true. However, as I said before, that is from 37k+ battles experience and running equipment and skilled crews. I will also fully agree that Wargaming does a piss poor job of teaching players about things like flanking, weak spots, tier spread, etc. Also, when going from a tier 2 (facing tier 3's) to a tier 3 (facing tier 5's) is a very big step. My hope is that doing this challenge will show newer players that the difference between being useless and useful is the player, rather than the tank.   Battles 1 - 10: 1st battle: Solo play, top tier, Ensk. I got swarmed by a Pz I C and couldn't quite get my gun to hit him. We still won. I would've made 5.1k profit without premium. However, I used a med kit, while still having one in my depot because of missions. So, assuming I had to rebuy the medkit at full price, I still would've made over 2k net profit without premium, or 5.3k with.   2nd battle: Ensk, top tier, solo play. Got swarmed from two sides, died, team carried to victory.   3rd battle: top tier, mines. Starting to believe that 'tier 3's see tier 5 all the time' is a myth, or that 'the first few battles in a new tank are always top tier' honeymoon thing might be true. Best result so far, a 1st class badge.   4th battle: solo play, Pearl River, first tier 5 match, first defeat. Didn't find the heavies, mostly because I went somewhere large, fat heavy tanks don't tend to go. I found a lot of tank destroyers though.   5th battle: solo play, Karelia, top tier again. A suiscout yolorushed and I was invisisniped before even getting a shot off.   6th match. Himmelsdorf. Solo play. 1 tier 3 (me), 2 tier 4's, the rest tier 5's. I went hill along with a tier 4 and two tier 5's, the enemy team pushed half their team hill, we got instantly overwhelmed. 5 shots fired, 2 hits, 1 damaging shot on a Sherman. Still earned more XP than two tier 5's and two tier 4's.     7th battle. Windstorm. Bottom tier vs half the team tier 5's. Got a few good hits on a Pz I C, bounced a regular AP and an APCR shell off of the front of a T1 Heay, disengaged, then got rushed by a T82 and derped. Team lost. Starting to think this challenge to prove that tier 3's can be relevant in tier 5 matches with some effort is going to be more difficult than I anticipated.     Eighth battle. Ruinberg on fire, bottom tier vs more than half the team tier 5's. I head to the little village on the east, but a lag spike and some packet loss cause me to drive into the open, cutting my adventure short. Time for a break.     Ninth battle. Solo play, Erlenberg, tier 4 max. This time it was my accuracy that let me down early game and my team that let me down late game.     Tenth battle. Pearl River, tier 4 match, solo play. Team spread was atrocious, worst I've seen in a long time (2 tanks north, 2 tanks south, 0 tanks middle, rest camp spawn). Somehow the enemy team managed to be even worse, so we still won. I didn't do that much damage, but my presence and the threat of my gun held back a DW2 for a few moments.     Thoughts after 10 battles:   This is more painful than I remembered tier 3 being. Maybe I was just too oblivious to the pain when I actively ground through tier 3 as a noob. Or maybe the meta has changed and power creep has changed the game so far. Or maybe I'm just going through a rough spot with my playing - Odin knows my high tier play hasn't been spectacular lately either.   I really dislike the Medium III, so far. It isn't very mobile apart from some decent straight line speed. The gun is mediocre. The armor nonexistent - anything that hits this thing does damage and autocannons and derp guns just shred it. I've not survived a single battle. No viewrange to scout with, no camo to hide with, mediocre radio range. The tank is just too average without a stand-out quality I can take advantage of.   I'm going to need to start practicing what I preach and hang back and support instead of trying to force breakthroughs / fights.   I miss my expensive equipment and skilled crews. Ah well, nothing to do but soldier on.   Some stats so far:   Battles played: 10 Win rate: 50% Mastery: 2nd class DPG: 180 (in a 280 hitpoint tank...) Survival rate: 0% APCR fired: 1 Battles with a credit loss (assuming standard account): 1 Top tier battles: 4 Battles vs tier 4: 2 Battles vs tier 5: 4 Net profit made (assuming standard account): 28974   Battles 11 - 20   Thoughts after 20 battles: This thing has no staying power outside its hitpoints. No viewrange to spot anything with. No penetration to go through angled tanks with mediocre armor. No camouflage. The two boobs are great big 'shoot me here' targets. I really don't like this tank. But, I'm soldiering on. It's only 30 more battles.   Stats so far:   Battles played: 20 Win rate: 45% Mastery: 2nd class DPG: 196 (getting better, still far from 'good Survival rate: 0% APCR fired: 6 Battles with a credit loss (assuming standard account): 3 Top tier battles: 8 Battles vs tier 4: 4 Battles vs tier 5: 8 Net profit made (assuming standard account): 64835   Battles 21 - 30   Thoughts after 30 battles: 280 hitpoints sounds very good for a tier 3, right? But with the DPM-vs-HP meta at low tiers and the thin armor that serves only to hold the crew inside when you go around a corner, the Medium III suffers against everything. Autocannons tear it to ribbons and derps jut pop the Medium III like a zit. Only against regular single-shot guns can it somewhat hold its own, but it always comes out of any duel bloodied, bruised and broken.   I'm going to be so happy when this challenge is over.   Stats so far:   Battles played: 30 Win rate: 50% Mastery: Ace DPG: 201 (getting better, still far from 'good Survival rate: 3.33% (Yes! I actually survived a battle!) APCR fired: 14 Battles with a credit loss (assuming standard account): 5 Top tier battles: 14 Battles vs tier 4: 5 Battles vs tier 5: 11 Net profit made (assuming standard account): 90786   Battles 31 - 40   Thoughts after 40 battles:   Thoughts after 40 battles:   I think the main problem is not whether or not I can be effective in this tank, but whether or not I feel like I'm effective. I don't. Even when I'm top tier, I feel ineffective. Rare are the games that I do more than my own hitpoints in damage. Out of 40 battles, I feel I 'carried' maybe one or two at most. It might be partially my playstyle, but also WG's way of doing things and balancing. Medium III is a weak tank.   Stats so far:   Battles played: 40 Win rate: 45% Mastery: Ace DPG: 213 Survival rate: 5% APCR fired: 22 Battles with a credit loss (assuming standard account): 6 Top tier battles: 21 Battles vs tier 4: 6 Battles vs tier 5: 13 Net profit made (assuming standard account): 120627   Battles 41 - 50   Thoughts after 50 battles: Thoughts after 50 battles:   This tank is not very intimidating. Nobody is afraid of it. The gun is anemic despite decent pen and ROF, the armor is non-existent, the speed is ok, the viewrange is non-existent, the hitpoints are ok, the camouflage is non-existent. This tank is entirely team and / or luck dependent. I am so very glad to be out of this.   Stats so far:   Battles played: 50 Win rate: 50% Mastery: Ace DPG: 239 Survival rate: 8% APCR fired: 27 Battles with a credit loss (assuming standard account): 5 Top tier battles: 27 Battles vs tier 4: 8 Battles vs tier 5: 15  Net profit made (assuming standard account): 175551   First ace game, 9.4 replay Second ace game, 9.4 replay Third ace game, 9.4 replay

Content_WG: Will this Silver League import upend the Gold League vets?
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ElPozoleOlmeca: Las ofertas no vienen con pavo 

PollotheDestroyer: Las ofertas no vienen con pavo 

ApolloArtemis: Las ofertas no vienen con pavo 

pizzastorm: So good news for those wanting to wish the Canadian troops a happy holiday!   We have a contact which will be able to get any holiday cards we receive to our Canadian friends!   If this is something that you want to do, please send in your cards as quickly as possible so we can ship them out in time to arrive by the holidays.      

ElPozoleOlmeca: Sigues con el problema?

PollotheDestroyer: Sigues con el problema?

ApolloArtemis: Sigues con el problema?

Lert: The tier spread is there to encourage players to adapt to the situation. Scout, flank, harass, track. Learn weak spots. Don't try to 1v1 a tier 5 in a tier 3, there's a lot more you can do.   Click the link in my sig for my collection of guides to help newer players like yourself.

Pigeon_of_War:   This is definitely an issue with you system. You should send us a Tech Ticket.

Pigeon_of_War:     Look like a mod issue. Try un-installing the mods first, then send a ticket if the issues persists. 

dance210:   If you want to add a player to your roster, please email tournaments@wargaminamerica.com with all the information before registration closes. Unfortunately, at this time, there is no way for a team to set itself back to Forming after submission.

ElPozoleOlmeca: Nada más son teorías y especulaciones, pero me imagino que si algún día hay servidores en SA les dejan transferir sus cuentas porque me imagino que sería lo que paso en el Oriente y los servidores de SEA.

PollotheDestroyer: Nada más son teorías y especulaciones, pero me imagino que si algún día hay servidores en SA les dejan transferir sus cuentas porque me imagino que sería lo que paso en el Oriente y los servidores de SEA.

ApolloArtemis: Nada más son teorías y especulaciones, pero me imagino que si algún día hay servidores en SA les dejan transferir sus cuentas porque me imagino que sería lo que paso en el Oriente y los servidores de SEA.

Lert: Personally I like things with an explanation as to why something is happening rather than just showing it happening.

The_Chieftain: Soccer is derived from "Assoc."  In the British Isles you'll find Association Football, Rugby Football (itself divided into League and Union rules), and Gaelic football which only the Australians have hard of. As the dominant form, and older than Rugby, we don't use the adjective when talking about Association Football.

The_Chieftain:   I personally depressed the gun as far as I could and sent Minsk the photos to measure. It didn't look like much to me.

Content_WG: ¡Depués de la cena, únete con nosotros para recibir varios descuentos y un multiplicador de x5 XP!
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Content_WG: Depois de aproveitar bem o banquete, junte-se a nós na celebração do Dia de Ação de Graças, com muitos descontos e um multiplicador de XP x5!

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Content_WG: After the feast is done, join us in celebrating Tanksgiving with plenty of discounts and a x5 XP multiplier!
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Lert: It does for me. What makes you different?  

Lert: You'd be wrong. How much time do you think I spend in low tier british tanks, when I've got the tier 10 medium, tier 10 heavy and tier 10 TD in my garage?    

Lert: Ok, so you admit that your post is not asking for help and that you don't want help to learn how to play this game better? You admit that all you want is for WG to change the game to suit you, rather than you learning to play the game better? As for what forum it's posted in - you'd be surprised how many threads get posted in the wrong forums.   Also, if you shoot a tank somewhere and it doesn't do damage, shoot it somewhere else. Learn weak spots. Learn armor angling. Learn penetration. It's not difficult - I mean, I learned it, and if your opinion of me holds any merit whatsoever then I'm dumb and stubborn, so me learning it should mean that someone as great at reading and smart as you should be able to learn it too, right?  

Lert: Sorry, but ... It is in my sig underneath every post I write. It's pinned in the guides section, easy to find. How is it my fault that you can't find it? And you talk to me about reading comprehension? Again, you show that you have absolutely no interest in actually learning anything, because the first thing you did was go to suggestions and go "Waaah waaah change the game for me waah waah".  

Lert: And if I believe Bigfoot is real, does that automagically make it true?   The tier 3 - 5 gap is big, but not insurmountable. It's a challenge. It is there to help teach players to adapt to the situation, instead of trying to force the situation. Adaptibility is the key to being a good player. Doing what is necessary given the situation, instead of trying to force the issue.   As for me replying with sass and attitude - oh yes. I fully agree. I've been a sarcastic ahole to you. Because that was the tone you started with to begin with. Your very OP is dismissive of any attempt to try and help you, and full of baseless, untrue delusions of adequacy. You claim to "know how to play" but the sad fact is that you don't have the foggiest. Your entire OP is just a pity-party "Waah waah I can't do anything to tier 5's waah waah feel pity for me". Wake up and smell the coffee.   If what you're doing isn't working, try something else! As for what that 'something else' is? Well, you don't want to hear that, do you. The second half of your entire OP makes it absolutely clear that you do not want tips on how to play better. And then you cry that I didn't start with linking you to my guides, telling you how to play better? Really?   Well, other players can do bad things to tier 5's with tier 3's, and make money doing so. And they're driving the exact same tier 3's that you are. So what's the difference between you and them? Which leads me to ....  

Lert: Because I learned how to play the game. And I'm trying to teach beginners - like you - how to as well. See all my (unpaid and completely voluntary) work on my guides, linked in my sig, underneath every post I make.   There is more information about me in my sig, btw. Things you've accused me of, that you somehow apparently believed I didn't already know about myself.   Just because I have 37k games played (and an additional 7k in beta) doesn't magically give my gun more penetration, it doesn't magically give my tank more armor, it doesn't magically make my tank see further than yours. It just means that I know better how to maximize my tank's strengths and minimize its weaknesses. It's the player, not the tank.   My challenge to you was to maybe try and get it through your thick skull that the game doesn't need to change. You need to change. Stop with the "Don't bother telling me how to play" attitude and listen to people with vastly more experience than you do.   I was going to make it a learning experience, start a new guide about how to play a soft tier 3 vs tier 5's, but since you don't seem interested in learning (again, the second half of your OP makes that perfectly clear with all the elitist attitude you accuse me of) I'm not gonna bother, for you. Maybe for the next person, who does open themselves up to learning how to play instead of only being interested in changing the game to suit them.   Unless you stow the attitude and start admitting that you still need to learn the basics about how to play this bloody game.   Yeah I'm an elitist prick. I never denied that. But the "don't bother telling me how to play" attitude of newbies like you is starting to wear my patience really, really, REALLY thin. I don't mind teaching you - in fact, I'd be happy to - if only you admit that you need it and open yourself up to being taught.   Oh, btw ... English is my second language. Thanks for the compliment, though.   Now, as I said, my patience is wearing really thin with you. So this is going to be my last post in this thread, unless things change and you calm down with the attitude. If you do I will as well. Because let me remind you, you started with it.

pizzastorm: Two more days!  Get your Turkeys in!

dance210:   Hi!   So, there's two different things.   1. Standings: The program automatically orders teams by points, then alphabetically by name. We can't change that. Ties are calculated manually, which is why we put up the draw rules.   2. Has your team won 2nd place in any other Stand-To's over the last several days? Because while I would love to give out gold that quickly, I haven't even looked at the results for 11.25.14 yet. Don't worry, once I do, your team will be credited the 500 gold it won :)

Lert: Those are very underwhelming.

Lert:   Yes, finally someone explained to you that it isn't a hack. I mean, I was getting a bit uncertain myself*   *warning, may contain sarcasm

The_Chieftain: Looking at the Ripper stream, I'm wondering how long it takes before my appearance at 38:23 gets memed...