Idea on how to REALLY fix the spgs?
Дата: 11.04.2021 11:29:13
Omega_Weapon, on Apr 11 2021 - 02:45, said: Arty has always been a part of the risk/vs reward equation. If you drive around very randomly, never taking the time to stop moving and aim at a target, then arty will have a very hard time hitting you. However you become much less effective in most other respects. You can also hide in arty cover or keep yourself unspotted, but you might not be helping your team enough if you do that excessively. Good players take arty into account as one of the risk factors for any action they take. They may complain about it, but they do it well enough to still be considered good players so arty isn't really holding them back much. Arty is not getting nerfed because it is too easy to play. Arty only gets nerfed because a very vocal minority hate arty enough to never shut up about how it "ruins the game" by fulfilling its designed role in the game. Any tank with a large caliber gun and long reload can also sit beyond spotting distance and give the player time to eat a snack and watch youtube videos between shots. Not a very effective way to play though for any class. A long reload time is best used as a chance to move and relocate or analyze the developments on the mini map. If you don't put your best effort in (even in SPGs), you win fewer games. Yes, pro or anti-arty arguments are very much based on personal opinion. I think Wargaming was wrong though to start down the nerfing road with arty in the first place. They should have just stuck to their guns. All the arty nerfs and adjustments make arty players unhappy, yet never seem to reduce the crying of the arty haters. Wargaming doesn't make people on either side happy with these nerfs. Seems that arty haters cannot accept the indirect fire mechanic period. On that note I have heard that a real solution is in development. World of Tanks console is introducing a separate game mode with modern era tanks. World of Modern Tanks will not have arty as a playable class. People who hate arty can play arty free in WOMT while those who prefer arty can continue to play classic WOT. If it works on console, we can probably expect the change to make its way to WOT PC as well.
Draschel: Yes artillery will have a harder time hitting you. But they don't necessarily have to hit you. But whereas direct fire tanks have an easier time hitting someone moving around quickly due to shell velocity and accuracy, they subject themselves to being spotted for it and received return fire. Artillery does so with impunity. Good players weather the storm of artillery, because deep down they know it is next to moot. Inconsequential. They hate it, curse it, berate it - but practically deep down, it isn't the problematic issue. It is the emotional whirlwind fury scapegoat. Let me explain. An E25, for example is a keystone threat. High camo, mobility, DPM, pref MM. A E25 will kill you. And it is almost always a threat, unless you are Defender in a city map. Now granted, M44 or old GW panther and/were great SPG people do well in, but still something an average player struggles to maintain even 1K damage in. With the Tiers 1-6 HP rework, Tier 6 tanks are getting 1.5k+ averages easy. An expert, would most rather bank on having to deal with a stun and 400 damage splash track hit from conqueror GC or GWE every 30.5 sec, and estimate that the artillery may occasionally miss widely, as most arty have trouble managing even 45% ratio -- than have to deal with murderous tanks like Chieftain, 907, T57, 430U that have hit ratios 80%. Especially if there is a significantly threatening pilot in those, who knows what is needed to know. But artillery is frustration. A potato can do it. That is the problem. What is the DPM, alpha of GWE or Conqueror GC, average 300-500? 1k per minute? What is the DPM of tier 9+10 tanks? It is quite clear. Artillery is getting nerfed because of balancing reasons. Meaning it is easy to play, colloquially. Easy to play, means the majority of players, good or bad, will do better in it than something that is hard to play. It is not a very minor local vocal community, that drives nerfs. Server forums are a small population set. But the run surveys in-game, hundreds of thousands probably complete those. And probably many of those express disdain, contempt, anger at artillery. It is the same thing like counter strike. People hate being sniped from 150m away by someone with Scout or AWP. So they regulate these rifles and apply lots of soft penalties. You ahve a very skewed, flawed, most incorrect view of how balancing takes place. It's contemptuous, pompous, biased, and the sign of someone with an attitude problem. The problems with using tanks like high tier TD, or high bore size tank guns as artillery - still leaves them open to return fire and/or spotting. They can't escape that, unless all you want to do is blindshot and hope that in 720m your shots hit something. That is childish. Tanks and TD also have to fight terrain and bumps. But yes, tank destroyers generally are easier to play than medium tanks. Even hard ones like Grille, all people have to do is turn off ensk and himmelsdorf with prem, and sit in the back and hope your teams scouts are better, and fire all game. Inexperienced players tend to do better in heavy armor tanks and TDs, do their best in SPGs, and their worst in non wheeled light t anks. If artillery disappeared, just the next day, people would start complaining about tank destroyers. The new complacent and sit as far away from the enemy as possible, in bushes, and shoot all game with less chances of return fire. Trust me. Because you cannot fix broken, with nerfs. You ahve to make it un broken. And you cannot. How do you not understand these concepts. You can nerf FV4005, but you still haven't taken away its explosive nature, to which it is problematic to begin with. You can nerf EBR75 and 105, but again the broken traits that enrage people, remain. YOU CANNOT FIX BROKEN, by nerfing. Look at VK3601 years ago, when the L58K Konisch was problematic with gold spammers, who paid for such an outrageous boon. That was broke as f--- They didn't enrf VK3601, the platform. They jsut came down hard on the GUN, the BROKEN ELEMENT, and changed Konisch entirely. This is the proper way of doing things. Tackling problematic issues, not the platform hosting the issue. Arty attacks from great distances away, doesn't need to learn armor layout or aim, doesn't need to hit something to do something, is a force multiplier from afar not a embattled warrior, is entirely based on luck with both hit % and DPM.....the thing is just a toxic slot machine. You can't fix this crap with nerfs. THAT IS WHY WG IS RELEASING THIS HE 3.0 WITH NEW ARTY CLASS FEATURES. Like re worked tracer elements, over target marker warnings, Etc. New MECHANICS, to nerf arty. Why is that? Because standard numeric nerfs aren't working. They need class specific mechanics nerfs. How do you not understand this?