Idea on how to REALLY fix the spgs?
Дата: 11.04.2021 11:29:13
Omega_Weapon, on Apr 11 2021 - 02:45, said: Arty has always been a part of the risk/vs reward equation.
If you drive around very randomly, never taking the time to stop
moving and aim at a target, then arty will have a very hard time
hitting you. However you become much less effective in most
other respects. You can also hide in arty cover or keep yourself
unspotted, but you might not be helping your team enough if
you do that excessively. Good players take arty into account
as one of the risk factors for any action they take. They may
complain about it, but they do it well enough to still be
considered good players so arty isn't really holding them back
much. Arty is not getting nerfed because it is too easy to
play. Arty only gets nerfed because a very vocal minority hate arty
enough to never shut up about how it "ruins the game" by fulfilling
its designed role in the game. Any tank with a large caliber
gun and long reload can also sit beyond spotting distance and
give the player time to eat a snack and watch youtube videos
between shots. Not a very effective way to play though for any
class. A long reload time is best used as a chance to move and
relocate or analyze the developments on the mini map. If you don't
put your best effort in (even in SPGs), you win fewer games.
Yes, pro or anti-arty arguments are very much based on personal
opinion. I think Wargaming was wrong though to start down the
nerfing road with arty in the first place. They should have just
stuck to their guns. All the arty nerfs and adjustments make arty
players unhappy, yet never seem to reduce the crying of the arty
haters. Wargaming doesn't make people on either side happy with
these nerfs. Seems that arty haters cannot accept the indirect fire
mechanic period. On that note I have heard that a real solution
is in development. World of Tanks console is introducing a
separate game mode with modern era tanks. World of Modern Tanks
will not have arty as a playable class. People who hate arty can
play arty free in WOMT while those who prefer arty can
continue to play classic WOT. If it works on console, we can
probably expect the change to make its way to WOT PC as well.
Draschel: Yes artillery will have a harder time hitting you. But they
don't necessarily have to hit you. But whereas direct fire tanks
have an easier time hitting someone moving around quickly due to
shell velocity and accuracy, they subject themselves to being
spotted for it and received return fire. Artillery does so
with impunity. Good players weather the storm of artillery,
because deep down they know it is next to moot. Inconsequential.
They hate it, curse it, berate it - but practically deep down, it
isn't the problematic issue. It is the emotional whirlwind fury
scapegoat. Let me explain. An E25, for example is a keystone
threat. High camo, mobility, DPM, pref MM. A E25 will kill you. And
it is almost always a threat, unless you are Defender in a city
map. Now granted, M44 or old GW panther and/were great SPG
people do well in, but still something an average player struggles
to maintain even 1K damage in. With the Tiers 1-6 HP rework, Tier 6
tanks are getting 1.5k+ averages easy. An expert, would most rather
bank on having to deal with a stun and 400 damage splash track hit
from conqueror GC or GWE every 30.5 sec, and estimate that the
artillery may occasionally miss widely, as most arty have trouble
managing even 45% ratio -- than have to deal with
murderous tanks like Chieftain, 907, T57, 430U that have hit ratios
80%. Especially if there is a significantly threatening pilot in
those, who knows what is needed to know. But artillery is
frustration. A potato can do it. That is the problem. What is the
DPM, alpha of GWE or Conqueror GC, average 300-500? 1k per minute?
What is the DPM of tier 9+10 tanks? It is quite
clear. Artillery is getting nerfed because of balancing
reasons. Meaning it is easy to play, colloquially. Easy to play,
means the majority of players, good or bad, will do better in it
than something that is hard to play. It is not a very minor local
vocal community, that drives nerfs. Server forums are a small
population set. But the run surveys in-game, hundreds of thousands
probably complete those. And probably many of those express
disdain, contempt, anger at artillery. It is the same thing like
counter strike. People hate being sniped from 150m away by someone
with Scout or AWP. So they regulate these rifles and apply lots of
soft penalties. You ahve a very skewed, flawed, most incorrect view
of how balancing takes place. It's contemptuous, pompous, biased,
and the sign of someone with an attitude problem. The
problems with using tanks like high tier TD, or high bore size tank
guns as artillery - still leaves them open to return fire and/or
spotting. They can't escape that, unless all you want to do is
blindshot and hope that in 720m your shots hit something. That is
childish. Tanks and TD also have to fight terrain and bumps. But
yes, tank destroyers generally are easier to play than medium
tanks. Even hard ones like Grille, all people have to do is turn
off ensk and himmelsdorf with prem, and sit in the back and hope
your teams scouts are better, and fire all game. Inexperienced
players tend to do better in heavy armor tanks and TDs, do their
best in SPGs, and their worst in non wheeled light t
anks. If artillery disappeared, just the next day,
people would start complaining about tank destroyers. The new
complacent and sit as far away from the enemy as possible, in
bushes, and shoot all game with less chances of return fire. Trust
me. Because you cannot fix broken, with nerfs. You ahve
to make it un broken. And you cannot. How do you not understand
these concepts. You can nerf FV4005, but you still haven't taken
away its explosive nature, to which it is problematic to begin
with. You can nerf EBR75 and 105, but again the broken traits that
enrage people, remain. YOU CANNOT FIX BROKEN, by nerfing. Look at
VK3601 years ago, when the L58K Konisch was problematic with gold
spammers, who paid for such an outrageous boon. That was broke as
f--- They didn't enrf VK3601, the platform. They jsut came
down hard on the GUN, the BROKEN ELEMENT, and changed Konisch
entirely. This is the proper way of doing things. Tackling
problematic issues, not the platform hosting the issue. Arty
attacks from great distances away, doesn't need to learn armor
layout or aim, doesn't need to hit something to do something, is a
force multiplier from afar not a embattled warrior, is entirely
based on luck with both hit % and DPM.....the thing is just a toxic
slot machine. You can't fix this crap with nerfs. THAT IS WHY WG IS
RELEASING THIS HE 3.0 WITH NEW ARTY CLASS FEATURES. Like re worked
tracer elements, over target marker warnings, Etc. New MECHANICS,
to nerf arty. Why is that? Because standard numeric nerfs aren't
working. They need class specific mechanics nerfs. How do you not
understand this?
Idea on how to REALLY fix the spgs?