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Sandbox 2021: Try Out Crew 2.0!

Дата: 26.02.2021 17:09:05
View PostStahanoW, on 26 February 2021 - 10:17 AM, said:
Erm, I think some other major issues were addressed by the community, not just these two, like:
- 7.5 skills are just not enough, 10 what would be the sweetspot. I don't mind if the 75 level cap would increase to 100.
- Half of the skills are very situational and you can only use them in very cheesy situations
- The amount of XP loss when you try to train your commander to a different tank is insane when you are paying credits for it. The price is also a joke, because the same crew moving to a Tier I to a Tier II tanks is 500.000 credits, while the Tier II tank average price is around 3.500 credits, this has to be adjusted / level at least.
- The Vehicle Handling % loss (which is connected the extra 10% VH provided by the commander itself in Crew 1.0) bug still sitting in the system (while sandbox received some small updates)
- Talents are so situational, most of them are just deadweight

I already wrote down the goods sides, so I don't want to repeat myself (just because I don't want to annoy you). The count of major problems are 7, not just two. If these things could change in a better way... well I can live with Crew 2.0 . But not like this. I think the others are on the same opinion too (based on what I read mainly on EU and RU forums).

2 things came up my mind lately:
- What if crews could have tanktype based skills instead of situational skills?
- What if the 5 main category would be the same like Eqipment 2.0s categories?

HeatResistantBFG:  For clarity, we're not saying those are the only changes that will/can happen. They are sort of feedback to the feedback, and it was decided to let players know that we have already decided to change these things based on the early feedback. We are taking in all the feedback and it will be looked at, it's possible if not likely that many other things will be changed. As my analogy before said, we want to know if our players want a "cake", and we've given them an ingredients list :D Then we have to judge if the feedback is "no cake" or "not those ingredients" lol, I personally looking forward to a future iteration and seeing what new things are thought of... and of course, gathering all the feedback on that too! :teethhappy: 

View PostSwiftScope, on 26 February 2021 - 10:20 AM, said:     Here we go, WG staff trying to polish the new crew system as good.   and btw the cake example is nice but irrelevant. you already baked the cake, we tasted it and it smell and taste like poop. crew 2.0 is already on sandbox and we are testing it. simply we don't like it. it is a big money grab and it make some already broken tanks even more OP. in the current crew system 4 skill crew is epic, more than enough to be competitive. in crew 2.0 we need big pockets to be competitive.   anyway i have premium tanks with special crew and i payed for both of them and invested a lot of them to make them decent crew. now you will take them against my will and transform them to special instructors that are nothing but a pile of RNG garbage and you will leave my premium tanks without any crew. when this crew 2.0 thing goes live be ready to refund me all the money i paid for premium tanks with special crew. This is the rule, if you touch premium tanks or any paid items players will be entitled to refund.   Be ready to lawyer up WG because soon the player base will demand a refund because you messed up with items we paid for.    

HeatResistantBFG:  The point of the analogy was to point out "no one has even entered the kitchen" nevermind baked the cake (I'm getting far more use from this analogy than I intended...), so saying "you smelt and tasted the cake" is obviously not true. If this was CT x.xx then sure you'd have more of a point, but the sandbox has on many occasions been the testing grounds for things that shift a lot before entering the game or don't enter the game due to feedback. And simply YOU don't like it. You have your feedback and we welcome it, and we gather feedback from as many places as we can, but it is often possible that people can think something different to something else. In the current system, a 4 skill crew can have BIA, Repairs, Concealment, 6th sense and then X more perks (depending on the crew size), so that's realistically around 7? Okay turning a 4 perk crew into a new you get 60 + 4 instructors + 6th sense. So with that you can put 2 groups of 30 into sections and get 8 full perks (6 from the 60 points, 2 from the bonus perks), then 6th sense is free, and then with your instructors gave as much as 12 perk points elsewhere, equal to 1.2 skills. So that 4 point with around 7 to 9.2, then add in things like concealment on the sandbox is more powerful than in-game currently, or that repairs i think only needs 4 points to be the same effect as current.. Not only can you have more perks you can have better and stronger ones, plus the instructors increase the amount of crew xp you earn and so you'll likely be levelling the crew up faster. Does this mean it's better? No, but it means that to simply say "oh it's worse everywhere" is clearly wrong and mostly stand to invalidate your points as either being selectively trying to find holes or simply that you haven't tried the new system. Also never heard someone call a 4 point crew "epic". No attempts to polish anything, just pointing out nothing as clear cut as you're making it. 

View PostRedJester, on 26 February 2021 - 10:21 AM, said: I have not answered the poll because there wasn't an option for my opinion. 
I think the option: I like crew 2.0 but with some MAJOR changes should have been the 5th option. 
  1) Retraining crews to new tank should be left as is in current system firstly, not the new EXTORTIONATE system in terms of XP and credits - it is absurdly expensive. (500k credits and 660.700k xp SERIOUSLY... or nearly 2 million crew xp for so-called free?:facepalm:).    2) We should at least get xp for zero skill BIA crews when converted to instructors since we're all losing that perk from those crew we either paid or played to earn that we currently enjoy. 
3) There should be none of this RNG nonsense on perks for Instructors, allow us to select the perks and change if we desire at the very least if you're gonna take away our precious zero commanders. 
4) In reality someone with a 4 skill crew right now is going to be worse off after conversion in terms of skills, address this fact so we're not losing out in terms of skills after conversion. 
5) Perhaps consider that 75 skills is not enough and restrictive, forcing us to lose out in real terms compared to what we can have now. 
6) Perhaps talents should not be locked to one tree forcing 30 points into that one tree, and also should be resettable. 7) I am sure there are a few things I missed but others will have pointed them out.  8) Crew 2.0 imo could be great, but not as it is.   

HeatResistantBFG:  Well in the post you just replied to 2 and 3 are covered as both at the bottom of that post and updated on the first page I pointed out we have confirmed that those aspects will be changed. To the rest I would simply answer 8, totally agree it could be great. That's why the sandbox. We want to take the feedback and make it that. Referencing the poll was just to make the point that even on the forums the conclusion isn't as clear cut as people think because most people are answering a different question than what we're asking :D  

View PostSmoki_Bandit, on 26 February 2021 - 10:57 AM, said: Dear WG I have one observation relating to BIA vs Coherence Why did the successor to the BIA get a negative consequence in the sense that when the crew is injured or stunned it loses its value !? For example: take two identical scout tanks on Prokhorovka.Both have learned identical skills, including Coherence/Bia(in old system) to maximize spotting skill.   Both stand in a line of bushes and spot for their team, xyz meters away from each other (as far as it is just enough to stumble unhindered and so that they can shoot unspotted from the other scout)   Scenario 1: one scout blindfire and hits another, neither spot is spotted because there are double bushes between them.The affected scout withdraws from the position and incites spotting from another location where he is not so endangered as to survive and make spotting for his team.BIA non stop active and spotting range and hiding at the same level, neither is spot.   Scenario 2: same target same distance, same blindfire from first one (HE grenade). Another spotter has injured / stun crew members / set on fire.Coherence in the second scout ceases to be valid and performance, including concealment falls by some percentage, while in the second tank that made the hit those values remain. The first tank spot of the second tank, this one of course when spotted tries to withdraw and is exposed to fire of all enemy tanks in the rank + due to the hit this one fired been activcated the skill "Target Tracing" which makes it marked for an additional two seconds which further complicates the life of the spotted tank. In that scenario he will most likely be killed and thus the other team will get a huge advantage which often leads to victory.  

HeatResistantBFG:  As it stands Coherence doesn't affect camo so technically doesn't impact your example, but the camo skill is much more powerful and also wouldn't be affected by your example. For clarity not taking away from your example and I get your point, simply correcting some info as your example doesn't technically work :) 

View PostHepo, on 26 February 2021 - 11:12 AM, said: Long time since I have posted anything. But going through all the info about crew 2.0, I wanted to give my suggestion how to handle the 0-skills/instructors. Maybe this has been suggested before, but I couldn't find.

For example I have a crew with Santa as a commander: When converting, calculate the experience of the whole crew and divide it by number of crew members (like this is currently implemented). But instead of converting Santa to instructor with random skill boosts, just give player opportunity to select two fully maxed skills for Santa (because in Crew 1.0 he had two free skills anyway). And remove other boosts instructor has, to prevent creating too OP combinations (like over 100% camo boost).
In my opinion, this would be the simplest system for players to understand and also work nearly identically for special crew members as it did before. This crew would have 2 zero skills as it did before and all the other skills are unlocked like with any other crew.

HeatResistantBFG:  Thanks for the feedback :) 

View PostFrostBiil, on 26 February 2021 - 11:14 AM, said: Hi Wargaming   I have tested the crew 2.0 for a few hours now. It's a really good change, it helps new players a friend of mine like it he's having trouble understanding what to put on your crew. But it feels too random with the Instucter skills (i know it's not completely random), i feel you should allow people to choose the skills for themselves, fx. if i want to set up a passive tank and i want the "eyes open" for that tank you might not get it all of the times and then you have wasted that instructor. So please consider making that change with allowing people to decide for themselves and no semirandom perks.    - FrostBiil

HeatResistantBFG:  Hey, if you check the first post you'll see there is a small announcement + an updated FAQ where we let you know that the way instructors get their perks will be changed! :) Hope this helps 

View PostHMS_Birmingham, on 26 February 2021 - 11:20 AM, said: Is there not a pinned post where WG can update us on changes to the SB crew 2.0?   I keep seeing sandbox updates but no news for their reasons? Is it to fix bugs or are WG trying to resolve players concerns by improving 2.0 ???    

HeatResistantBFG:  We updated the first post and will try and repeat the information without spamming it :) 

View PostRakii, on 26 February 2021 - 12:09 PM, said: I have main problem with compensations / transfers / economy   1) 0-perk(s) should be compensated (or any skill including six sense) 2) We should be able to convert any crew to XP books 3) Bunks - many players paid real money or gold to get them so good amount of gold should be compensated. We didn´t pay for any Order 4) Directives - it´s a nerf - the best solution would be credit conversion (20k : 1) 5) Personal Training Manual -- it´s the most rare manual (not available for credit) It should be kept as legacy item for one time use on crew. 6) retraining / skill reset should be much cheaper and without loosing XP

HeatResistantBFG:  1. has been addressed, check the first post :) 3. As is explained bunks became crew resets (ratio of 16 to 1), and so you are being compensated and I think the gold cost equates.  For the rest, we appreciate the feedback and are taking all feedback into consideration :honoring:

View PostFeoffle_der_Fachidiot, on 26 February 2021 - 12:15 PM, said: I am worried that we demand compensation for the zero skill perk, but WG don't give us the compensation it deserves.   The more skills you have on a "zero skill perk" crew, the greater the loss you suffer with this current conversion rate. The XP compensated should be equivalent to the next highest band of XP required to complete that perk, but I bet we get offered something equivalent to the first skill's XP requirement, which equates to a fraction of whatever the next skill would be in reality when you're at 4-5 skills.

HeatResistantBFG:  We have confirmed we will be changing the current approach to how 0 point perks are handled :) 

View PostArty_Lerry, on 26 February 2021 - 12:36 PM, said: 2 days after the crew 2.0 release on sandbox.  Wargaming is shamelessly already posting and advertising for us - players, to buy Sabaton crew Primo Victoria tank, so that we can get 4 extra Class II instructors in the future. Very sneaky wargaming - actually not, rather rude and obvious way to show us that you are all about ''pay to win baby". :D:D:D I expect soon enough T1LPC Offspring, The Boys and whatever else to be in store before the update. Haha :D:D:D   Only 33 euro for useless tank but 4 class II instructors. :P

HeatResistantBFG:  Well we have confirmed we are changing how they are handled, but more importantly, this is a sandbox test... It may never hit the live server. 

View PostFleiszG, on 26 February 2021 - 12:49 PM, said: Hi! Can someone tell me: Are Twitch commander CLASS 3 OR CLASS 2. Thx

HeatResistantBFG:  If they have 1x 0 point perk then class 3, if they have 2x then class 2 :) 

View PostMrLovelyHat, on 26 February 2021 - 01:06 PM, said: Someone else posted this video, but here's the part which shows you can get +15% EXTRA crew skill after level 75: https://youtu.be/qS6sNTZnh9g?t=771   1. It will cost about $300. Per crew. Or literally 100s of hours per crew. Why should it ever be this hard or expensive to have a fully competitive crew? 2. This potential disparity between players is terrible for balance. It goes even deeper into the questionable "advantages for paying" philosophy. If paying gives advantages, those advantages should be capped for the good of gameplay. A full expertise +15%, premium tank with bond equipment, firing all gold...yuck? Someone in a T95/FV4201 with this crew against a newly arrived T10 player? I am a premium account player with some of those advantages, but I'm still often in the dust compared to a veteran with a great crew (and lots of playing experience - which IMHO should be the only advantage). 3. You can use this crew against new players in whatever tier you want. A Hetzer, LEFH or E25 with this crew? A KV-2 with insta swap shells with this crew...? Wrecking ammo racks and fuel tanks on noobs' tanks with vulnerability expert (because they don't have any skill points in "Safety Measures" yet...)   WG, do you want the game to be appealing to new players? Low tiers already have a lot of problems and this change seems to add to those problems. Crew 2.0 could be a great leveller - make it easy to re-spec, make progressing your crew exciting and fast - so they feel competitive. Don't make it so that veterans and people with a huge wallet get an advantage. It's possible to monetize this without it causing imbalance. There are enough excellent suggestions in this forum that Crew 2.0 could be great, simple and to the advantage of ALL players. I hope you have the will to do it WG...

HeatResistantBFG:  You can actually get +21% currently.  Just to point out, a 75 point crew is the same as a 5 perk crew now, and with the 15% is a 6... So this is no different than the current game, the ability to boost your crew hasn't changed. What you seem to be doing is comparing a "max" crew to "being competitive", which is akin to saying only a 9 point crew is competitive in the current game... which is quite clearly not true. And you use this "well now you can pay for god tier" as the basis for the rest of your case, but then even say yourself that you are "outclassed" by a player with a better crew in the current system. And then you say "you can use the crew at low tiers"... well you can do that now... "LEHF or E25" ... they're premiums, you can put crews in them for free currently? I'm assuming your point is that they are viewed as a single system you can share it between an obj 140 and a tier 2... True, but how many players who want high-level crews in a tier 2 weren't already doing that and are going to suddenly do it?  And then the ultimate point I get to make, this is a sandbox test, not a final product. We have already confirmed 2 changes in approaches within days and it could be a year or never before we see this on the live server.

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