Winners of the French SPG contest!
Дата: 18.06.2012 19:21:35
Gaea: Posting this for The_Chieftain:
Well, that was quite a slog, and thank you for your patience.
As I have said, there is no way I can go over every entry and explain what was liked and not liked. Hopefully this post will at least give an idea of the thought processes and general themes which were observed. Inevitably, there will be complaints, disagreements, shock, horror, and otherwise disapproval of some of this. Sorry. This is a subjective contest, I hope that again the below can be used to better get a sense of things for future use.
Firstly, I was impressed by the amount of pre-fall-of-France designs. Though the rules did allow technology up the the 1950s to be used, most of you eschewed this and went with conversions of pre-war designs. On the other hand, bigger is not necessarily better. I was surprised by the amount of designs that eschewed the mobility suggestion for colonial France. Giganaut, I’m looking at you as a prime example. Great render (I really liked the interior shot), but 120 tons?! Even if I think you’re overstating it and it probably would be closer to 70-80 tons, I just can’t imagine the French Army going for it. You weren’t alone, though, there were a number of monsters submitted. Yours was just one of the best monsters, though Xtrasus’ RKX 101 2A was one of the most eyecatching with its quad-track design.
Unfortunately, many of the modern ‘light’ designs were unsupported by documentation of note. Probably the best ‘light’ entry was Wasted4440’s AMX 13 LR 105, but it was brought down by the pictures (very well drawn ones) basically being of an M19 GMC with a single long cannon. As a result, pretty much the viable expeditionary vehicles were those based off the Renault and Hotchkiss hulls, but fortunately there were many such entries to choose from. Some even photoshopped from the same root picture! MVictor, lucitribal, lintzx2, gondur all had similar designs which made it to the final cut.
Indeed, most every basic vehicle the French had was modified into an artillery piece, starting at the very start with a number of FT-17 variants. I had said that it would be important to be able to distinguish the merits of your Char B hull with 105mm whizzbang from the other guy’s Char B hull with 105mm whizzbang, and sure enough, there were multiple designs of Char Bs with 105mm whizzbangs mounted, often in similar mounts. However, the most common theme was the AMX-50 with a turreted 155mm whizzbang mounted, there were a number of such designs, some looking more like GWPs than others. One of the more interesting AMX-50 designs was Dornele’s AMX Nouvelle, without a turret, the picture being an elegant hand-drawn affair. Sadly, I strongly doubt that a ‘wheelgun’ style un-sealed revolver would work. There were a higher number of pencil-drawn entrants than usual, and some of the drawings were of nearly artist (3d) or draughtsman (plan) quality. Much though I like pencil drawings to show that you don’t need to be a 3D render god in order to win these things, in this case the pencil entries tended not to be as flawless in concept or complete in background information (though there are some notable exceptions you’ll see later). Another AMX-50-155 design worthy of mention was theblackeagle’s simple yet elegant turretless mounting of a 155mm, equally beautiful in ‘watercolour’ style drawing was blackheart612’s Batchat 150.
All too often, an entry was simply a picture with only basic explanation. There was absolutely nothing wrong with, for example, with ING’s Bison-like mounting of a complete wheeled field gun mounted onto the top of the Char B chassis, but it came with scarcely a paragraph. Why select that over Jeterman’s slightly less expedient Char B1 bis artillerie, which was just as reasonable? One of the contrary entries to that was Vollketten’s very informative submission, but what looked like a 1945 skeletal supersized FT-17 with a 6” naval gun wasn’t going to pass the likelihood test. Similarly US_Rifle_Caliber_30_M1 deserves mention for the attention to detail he paid to the ammunition design. Not to be outdone by the German tank competition entry with a massive spreadsheet calculating armour plate weight, Cutthroatlemur’s entry included screenshots from a program which calculated the mass of armour automatically, including from compound curves. Seriously impressed with that.
The Science Fiction category was well catered for, with futuristic designs by, in particular, Dragonfly 7, xXSoulXx, and most enthusiastically, Darkwave0. Shinada’s Slydr 13k deserves to be posted up just for novelty value in this category. I’m not sure if Mer_petain was actually trying for the Sci-Fi category, or if he was just reading too much Jules Verne with his massive bulbous thing on a Char 2 chassis.
There were some elegant line drawing designs submitted, some of favourites being Sigemund’s S35-75 (Could be a waste of a modern chassis though), and LeGuin’s S35 75 (Probably looking at a lack of structural rigidity with that large gap in the front armour).
Only two wheeled entries of note, one based on an EBR chassis, the other seemed to be a G6 with a French gun. Nice idea on the mobility front, but the one doesn’t seem practical for the chassis, the other lacked a little of the originality.
Metalmechanic, I laughed, but the French running-away-jokes are getting a bit old…
So, to the prizes.
Firstly, the honourable mentions. These aren’t ‘runner up’ prizes, they are just things which particularly caught the eye for one reason or another.
Though a weakly supported entry, CPTKDSmith’s VBCP 39G is an example of “The good stuff looks simple.” The drawing, though only one, is perfect, and the vehicle sensible.
Corous’ ARL 155GPF won the “Keep people looking for the longest to make sure it actually is an invented vehicle” award. The photo is great, and the in-depth background info seemed quite plausible.
Cosmeister’s book gets a mention for being easily the most thorough submission. I’m not convinced by the merits of his AMA-37, but the effort put into it was remarkable.
Lindo7777 was not the only person to submit an entry in an unusual medium, but his wooden B3 not only manages to look French, but the gun moves in elevation as well!
There were a number of youth entries, which I fully encourage. Hellostanley’s Artillerie Monstre # X 100 was an enthusiastic, multi-page entry with attention to detail.
Lastly, Lostwingman just generally had an entirely logical development history for his SAu-39.
And to the placings.
5th was a ‘so near, yet so close’. Indeed, when I first saw it, I thought it was a winner, but alas, it dropped down due to the fact that only the one basic line drawing was included. Masterwolf’s AMX 13MMC met the mobility requirements for colonial service, would be suitable for most all terrain, was entirely feasible in terms of construction, and the French Army particularly was enamoured of dual-mode mortars in the post-war period so it meets the ‘character’ test. It was also one of the few mortar designs submitted.
In 4th, Chryb’s suitably ugly Bat Loraine 155 (AKA “The Pig”) is not too ambitious, but quite original. It seems to have nothing particularly ‘wrong’ with it, though a little more background info would have probably helped it climb the ladder
Third goes to Soldust’s AMR 33-105 "Pluie Battante." One can envision this as being the predecessor to the heavier, more modern French autoloader vehicles. It’s light, not too ambitious, and the gravity-fed clips in particular were unique. One can see this in service in Africa as easily as the Belgian border.
Scryer117’s AMX50 Lourde Artillerie 155 takes second place, being
the best of the many turreted AMX50 designs. His multiple-page
entry included plan drawings of components, a sensible autoloader
system, and was generally thoughtful and detailed.
The winner is a bit of a surprise. There were a couple of perfectly good Char 2C entries (Zitadelle43’s presentation being particularly appealing), but this one was the best of the bunch. What was the surprise, though, was that as the entrants were being sorted and resorted, this one kept rising to the top of them all, not just the 2Cs. It’s not a fancy entrant with amazing technology, it’s not an eye-catching 3D render (Though the plan views are very nice), it’s not even, in the big scheme of things, a practical gun. But it ‘works.’ The backstory is believeable, he seems to have covered all the bases when it comes to why such a thing would have ever existed, and the design doesn’t over-reach: The description of the vehicle, its expected capabilities and performance, seem to be accurate for what he envisioned. So, let’s give it up for Deathmongrel and his FCM 2C ca-forte Obusier D'assaut Automoteurs.
His complete entry is found at this link.
So, congratulations to all, and again, I encourage people to post up their designs to share the treats, even those I haven't mentioned.
Well, that was quite a slog, and thank you for your patience.
As I have said, there is no way I can go over every entry and explain what was liked and not liked. Hopefully this post will at least give an idea of the thought processes and general themes which were observed. Inevitably, there will be complaints, disagreements, shock, horror, and otherwise disapproval of some of this. Sorry. This is a subjective contest, I hope that again the below can be used to better get a sense of things for future use.
Firstly, I was impressed by the amount of pre-fall-of-France designs. Though the rules did allow technology up the the 1950s to be used, most of you eschewed this and went with conversions of pre-war designs. On the other hand, bigger is not necessarily better. I was surprised by the amount of designs that eschewed the mobility suggestion for colonial France. Giganaut, I’m looking at you as a prime example. Great render (I really liked the interior shot), but 120 tons?! Even if I think you’re overstating it and it probably would be closer to 70-80 tons, I just can’t imagine the French Army going for it. You weren’t alone, though, there were a number of monsters submitted. Yours was just one of the best monsters, though Xtrasus’ RKX 101 2A was one of the most eyecatching with its quad-track design.
Unfortunately, many of the modern ‘light’ designs were unsupported by documentation of note. Probably the best ‘light’ entry was Wasted4440’s AMX 13 LR 105, but it was brought down by the pictures (very well drawn ones) basically being of an M19 GMC with a single long cannon. As a result, pretty much the viable expeditionary vehicles were those based off the Renault and Hotchkiss hulls, but fortunately there were many such entries to choose from. Some even photoshopped from the same root picture! MVictor, lucitribal, lintzx2, gondur all had similar designs which made it to the final cut.
Indeed, most every basic vehicle the French had was modified into an artillery piece, starting at the very start with a number of FT-17 variants. I had said that it would be important to be able to distinguish the merits of your Char B hull with 105mm whizzbang from the other guy’s Char B hull with 105mm whizzbang, and sure enough, there were multiple designs of Char Bs with 105mm whizzbangs mounted, often in similar mounts. However, the most common theme was the AMX-50 with a turreted 155mm whizzbang mounted, there were a number of such designs, some looking more like GWPs than others. One of the more interesting AMX-50 designs was Dornele’s AMX Nouvelle, without a turret, the picture being an elegant hand-drawn affair. Sadly, I strongly doubt that a ‘wheelgun’ style un-sealed revolver would work. There were a higher number of pencil-drawn entrants than usual, and some of the drawings were of nearly artist (3d) or draughtsman (plan) quality. Much though I like pencil drawings to show that you don’t need to be a 3D render god in order to win these things, in this case the pencil entries tended not to be as flawless in concept or complete in background information (though there are some notable exceptions you’ll see later). Another AMX-50-155 design worthy of mention was theblackeagle’s simple yet elegant turretless mounting of a 155mm, equally beautiful in ‘watercolour’ style drawing was blackheart612’s Batchat 150.
All too often, an entry was simply a picture with only basic explanation. There was absolutely nothing wrong with, for example, with ING’s Bison-like mounting of a complete wheeled field gun mounted onto the top of the Char B chassis, but it came with scarcely a paragraph. Why select that over Jeterman’s slightly less expedient Char B1 bis artillerie, which was just as reasonable? One of the contrary entries to that was Vollketten’s very informative submission, but what looked like a 1945 skeletal supersized FT-17 with a 6” naval gun wasn’t going to pass the likelihood test. Similarly US_Rifle_Caliber_30_M1 deserves mention for the attention to detail he paid to the ammunition design. Not to be outdone by the German tank competition entry with a massive spreadsheet calculating armour plate weight, Cutthroatlemur’s entry included screenshots from a program which calculated the mass of armour automatically, including from compound curves. Seriously impressed with that.
The Science Fiction category was well catered for, with futuristic designs by, in particular, Dragonfly 7, xXSoulXx, and most enthusiastically, Darkwave0. Shinada’s Slydr 13k deserves to be posted up just for novelty value in this category. I’m not sure if Mer_petain was actually trying for the Sci-Fi category, or if he was just reading too much Jules Verne with his massive bulbous thing on a Char 2 chassis.
There were some elegant line drawing designs submitted, some of favourites being Sigemund’s S35-75 (Could be a waste of a modern chassis though), and LeGuin’s S35 75 (Probably looking at a lack of structural rigidity with that large gap in the front armour).
Only two wheeled entries of note, one based on an EBR chassis, the other seemed to be a G6 with a French gun. Nice idea on the mobility front, but the one doesn’t seem practical for the chassis, the other lacked a little of the originality.
Metalmechanic, I laughed, but the French running-away-jokes are getting a bit old…
So, to the prizes.
Firstly, the honourable mentions. These aren’t ‘runner up’ prizes, they are just things which particularly caught the eye for one reason or another.
Though a weakly supported entry, CPTKDSmith’s VBCP 39G is an example of “The good stuff looks simple.” The drawing, though only one, is perfect, and the vehicle sensible.
Corous’ ARL 155GPF won the “Keep people looking for the longest to make sure it actually is an invented vehicle” award. The photo is great, and the in-depth background info seemed quite plausible.
Cosmeister’s book gets a mention for being easily the most thorough submission. I’m not convinced by the merits of his AMA-37, but the effort put into it was remarkable.
Lindo7777 was not the only person to submit an entry in an unusual medium, but his wooden B3 not only manages to look French, but the gun moves in elevation as well!
There were a number of youth entries, which I fully encourage. Hellostanley’s Artillerie Monstre # X 100 was an enthusiastic, multi-page entry with attention to detail.
Lastly, Lostwingman just generally had an entirely logical development history for his SAu-39.
And to the placings.
5th was a ‘so near, yet so close’. Indeed, when I first saw it, I thought it was a winner, but alas, it dropped down due to the fact that only the one basic line drawing was included. Masterwolf’s AMX 13MMC met the mobility requirements for colonial service, would be suitable for most all terrain, was entirely feasible in terms of construction, and the French Army particularly was enamoured of dual-mode mortars in the post-war period so it meets the ‘character’ test. It was also one of the few mortar designs submitted.
In 4th, Chryb’s suitably ugly Bat Loraine 155 (AKA “The Pig”) is not too ambitious, but quite original. It seems to have nothing particularly ‘wrong’ with it, though a little more background info would have probably helped it climb the ladder
Third goes to Soldust’s AMR 33-105 "Pluie Battante." One can envision this as being the predecessor to the heavier, more modern French autoloader vehicles. It’s light, not too ambitious, and the gravity-fed clips in particular were unique. One can see this in service in Africa as easily as the Belgian border.
Scryer117’s AMX50 Lourde Artillerie 155 takes second place, being
the best of the many turreted AMX50 designs. His multiple-page
entry included plan drawings of components, a sensible autoloader
system, and was generally thoughtful and detailed.The winner is a bit of a surprise. There were a couple of perfectly good Char 2C entries (Zitadelle43’s presentation being particularly appealing), but this one was the best of the bunch. What was the surprise, though, was that as the entrants were being sorted and resorted, this one kept rising to the top of them all, not just the 2Cs. It’s not a fancy entrant with amazing technology, it’s not an eye-catching 3D render (Though the plan views are very nice), it’s not even, in the big scheme of things, a practical gun. But it ‘works.’ The backstory is believeable, he seems to have covered all the bases when it comes to why such a thing would have ever existed, and the design doesn’t over-reach: The description of the vehicle, its expected capabilities and performance, seem to be accurate for what he envisioned. So, let’s give it up for Deathmongrel and his FCM 2C ca-forte Obusier D'assaut Automoteurs.
His complete entry is found at this link.
So, congratulations to all, and again, I encourage people to post up their designs to share the treats, even those I haven't mentioned.
Winners of the French SPG contest!