Balance..

Дата: 08.01.2019 12:21:57

Noo_Noo, on 07 January 2019 - 07:19 PM, said: Sorry fella but you keep missing my point. The gap is too extreme especially in a meta that puts you bottom tier all the time. Do you like feeling useless all the time.
Please note I have nothing to lose here. When the game p***es me off I'll leave and I've lost very little. However if I'm representative of a lot of the player base WG will lose their game. You're already down 20% players last year remember and I'm trying to suggest to you how and where things aren't going too well.

RE credit cards. I was responding to a point on grinding. With a credit card you don't have to grind do you. You can buy enough gold to Free XP your way to Tier 10 if you like. No mention of it influencing performance at all, purely a short cut to get to the upper tiers. I could go onto say the problems of having inexperienced players at high tiers but that's for another day as we are talking balance here.

Therefore, I have a question for you.
Why do WG continually release overpowered (unbalanced) premium tanks. There was a clear philosophy shift in 2016 I believe it was. Why?

eekeeboo: Hello, that's fine, but the fact remains you will not spend every game bottom tier with anything to shoot at but a defender. You will never actively just have you vs defender and no help, nowhere to go, nothing else to shoot and now one to move with. Again when you mention a loss of players, it's not because of driving more players away, the situation is more complex than what has been represented recently. A games player base is more than just balancing to keep players, you have new players vs old players, grinders vs non etc. In this instance, the game is designed around teamwork and having a challenge there, right or wrong. Balancing a game to boredom is now how you get new players or stop other players from leaving, that is the challenge. Even with a credit card you can't buy xp, you can convert it, sure, but you still have to earn it. You can't buy skills and map knowledge, you can't buy better teams and ability to know when and where to move and react. The closest you can get is buying a strong premium tank (which you still have to grind) to earn xp to convert, but the fact remains if you refuse to learn to play or just want to pay your way to victory you're going to have a bad time grinding in that premium tank. You say continually release OP premium tanks, list the tanks released that were OP vs those not OP when you also factor in the MM new premiums have. You have to make premiums competitive, if you make them weaker than tech tree or as strong as stock tanks, why would people buy them to make credits if they can do a better job in a normal tank?

mtnm, on 07 January 2019 - 08:47 PM, said: Guess that demographic is not new players, but old ones with 60K battles, 6 skill crews and too much money spent to get out.

eekeeboo: If you look at any game with low skill floor and easily mastered, new players get good at the game too quickly become disengaged and move onto something more challenging on the whole. In a free-to-play game market you need challenge to encourage your income, if everyone pays up front, you have a very different approach of difficulty and challenge.

Gixxer66, on 07 January 2019 - 08:54 PM, said: But it see's 75% bottom tier games - which means there's a high chance if it doesn't meet a Defender it will see an IS3A ......

eekeeboo: Can you please show me data to prove this where you will get bottom tier 75% of the time and you only see defender and IS3A?

Gkirmathal, on 07 January 2019 - 10:10 PM, said: Yes because Noo_noo used the E8 as an example, that has suffered, to show that the power gaps have become too large. See post #12. Of course power creep of tank stats is only one factor in the whole picture, that affects player perception/etc, although it is IMO one of the major contributing factors of what makes content UP or OP. Taking the three tanks mentioned purely as example. The Cromwell you mention, it has always been particularly suited to face the +2 environment and how WoT (design/meta changes) evolved. Due to the simple fact that it has always had good gun penetration with good dpm for it's tier. The latter aspect, combined with good agility/mobility, making up for the mediocre accuracy it was given. There was a reason why it was so popular, it has a lot of good aspects. Now the E8: it's M62 ammo 128mm pen has not been adequate for some time (same goes for all tier 6 with that pen on their top gun ammunition IMO). I have always been a proponent to changing the M62 (and M93) ammo on all M1A2 instances in game, for game balance and progression reasons, thus giving it an unhistorical AP ammo type that gives 140+ pen but keeping it's signature 115 alpha. This combi would make it unique in it's style. This single change will not make this this tank run rampant in tier 6, as the Cromwell is not running it rampant either. But it will make it slightly more effective/less frustrating, esp if the M93 prem round gets changed, versus an Obj. 252U. It will also benefit other tanks that can use the same gun. Such minor like changes are in effect quality of life changes and won't IMO make everything identical or boring. People in WoT IMO get bored due to the fact that so little is done in this respect.

eekeeboo: But you mention power gaps "becoming too large" they are no different now to how they used to be, as bottom tier you shouldn't be able to go head to head with top tier and win, that discourages you learning to play your tank in different ways and learning how to support. Essentially closing the gap would require every tank able to tank every tank and shoot it regardless of position and placement. I mentioned the cromwell because I hated the tank, why? Because I didn't learn to play the tank effectively in battles where it wasn't top tier. I accepted the challenge and learned, I got better. For the E8, the ammo is more than capable of hitting tank tracks and keeping them there while your teammates do their job, it's more than capable of hitting them in the back or sides of most tanks. When you say "simple change" you mean giving it more pen that would skew it at the tier but also how it can combat other tanks in lower tiers it can see. Mediums are not meant to just sit there and guarantee pen everything it shoots, that's the idea of knowing where to shoot.

kile917, on 07 January 2019 - 11:03 PM, said: we need balance, but now with this useless maps.... Just bring back the old maps without changes. this new tunnel maps are bad.... 80% of the maps useless or closed some how (hill, buildings, etc) the old maps was so nice and i can choose min 3 way to go, now heavys go in the tunnel, and the tds meds lights can go somewhere...... if you understand. this is sad

eekeeboo: You say balance, but the old maps were considered extremely unbalanced, favouring high camo sniping tanks above all else. You change the metric to which you balance to something else and still have strong and weak things in that area.

LordMuffin, on 07 January 2019 - 11:56 PM, said: Currently the gap between T6 and T8 is rather extreme. If you go back 2-3 years, the gap was LESS extreme. You at WG have increased the power gap between T6 and T8, just like you have between T8 and T10. It is your design that created the increase. The room to develop in WOT is decreasing due to map design and tank balance. Flanking is not a viable option on most maps, spotting is not a viable option on most maps. You at WG have lately remade or introduced maps which forces players into close range frontal engagements. And going into a fight with a Defender as an E8 might be the only chance you have to win, so it can be forced. E8 is not a particularly good T6 tank. Cromwell is miles ahead. E8 is average at best at T6. As for challenging, I don't think WoT is challenging in a good and interesting way anymore. Currently a huge part of WOT challenge comes from picking tank in garage and then having enough credits to use enough premium ammo to carry your team as buttom tier.

eekeeboo: But the gap between tier 4 and tier 6, tier 8 and 10 is large. You will never be the sole tier 4 or sole tier 6 or the sole tier 8 in the game. Pick your fights, help your teammates, support where you can and not just solo yolo hero into the enemy and expect to win. "I" at wargaming haven't increase anything other than interaction in the EN section and give feedback. There's a severe short memory in your statement that there has always been a large gap when lower tier vs higher tier... always. This has been no different at any time, including the +/-3 mm. When you can't spot, you can flank, flanking isn't just a open field movement across an open field, it's just as much using the building cover to go around the side and keep hitting the enemy in the tracks to keep them still for teammates. Should you win every game? Personally I believe not, the reason being is winning all the time gets boring fast, you are more likely to remember those games you performed or did everything perfect vs those times you did little but still won. It shouldn't be about reducing the skill floor to make life easier for people. Again, tell me how many times you've gone into a game in an E8 and only had a defender or only tier 8's on the enemy team to shoot at. Your perspective on challenging on WoT "anymore" wholly changes from when you were new and you had a completely different set of challenges to overcome.

Noo_Noo, on 08 January 2019 - 09:03 AM, said: Agreed. I chose the E8 purely as it isn't the best tier 6 tank but can and does come across Defenders in the MM. I also chose tier 6 and 8 as I agree that the gap is painfully large right now. I also agree that much of the challenge has gone which is another point I'm trying to get across. We want that E8 to have some level of a chance against the Defender. Currently it does not and in 99% of cases it just gets trounced. If I go into a tier 10 battle with my Tier 8 medium I want to be able to feel I can contribute something other than feeding my HP to someone who simply yolo's me in their IS7. I agree that one of largest challenges in game now is managing your credit income. People are struggling with that for the wrong reasons ie premium ammo and are lashing out about the issue or simply walking away. Neither suits WG.

eekeeboo: Once more I'm not saying it doesn't meet defenders, but I'm saying it doesn't meet JUST defenders or tier 8's. If you're actively going for the engagement with a defender in an E8 when there are tier 6s in the game or you could be going round the back etc you really need to consider the choices made in the battle.

Balance..



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