Sandbox 2021: Try Out Crew 2.0! - **Updated - Read Original Post**
Дата: 26.02.2021 19:23:30
YourBestFriend_2016, on 26 February 2021 - 03:29 PM, said: This suggest that you would listen to your players.
But allready for a year the player base says they did not ask for
crew 2.0 and instead want balanced games. The fact that we now test
crew 2.0 on the sandbox means by itself that you wont listen.HeatResistantBFG: There is literally nothing that backs this. Even the forum
poll in gameplay has only got 16% for "don't change anything" and
that's from the people you are using as evidence for your "no one
wants this". On the other hand, I have literally met thousands
while doing events with WG before I joined, I was a CC for console
for 6 years where I again spoke to thousands and now working for
the company we have those "why did you uninstall" surveys when
uninstalling the game. So the evidence for the crews needed a
change is in the hundreds of thousands, you just don't like it
because that's what you've decided and so you're happy to dismiss
it because it isn't what you want.
But even more than that, because obviously, not everyone has that information available to them, there is the fact that at least 4 previous sandboxes have resulted in nothing. Then on top of THAT, we have announced that DUE TO FEEDBACK we are definitely going to change 2 aspects... It's literally in this thread. So there is overwhelming evidence to say that we listen and make changes based on that.
But even more than that, because obviously, not everyone has that information available to them, there is the fact that at least 4 previous sandboxes have resulted in nothing. Then on top of THAT, we have announced that DUE TO FEEDBACK we are definitely going to change 2 aspects... It's literally in this thread. So there is overwhelming evidence to say that we listen and make changes based on that.
VarzA, on 26 February 2021 - 03:36 PM, said: Sorry no. I don't know for how long you have been working
for WG, but i have been watching this game company on/off for going
on 10 yrs now and you are just plain wrong. The UI of WOT is
... horrible, WG does not put this much effort in UI revamp for
this, without planning for this to go through. This will go
through, crew 2.0 is coming 99.99% sure. And 'changes are not
final' is fancy way for WG to make sure the hate doesn't go up,
leaving hope that things will change ... they won't, if they are
committed to these changes they will PR their way into making them
a reality and then it's 'fait accompli'. Now, elitism aside,
quite a few of us poor ppl, have 3 skill crews (which we consider
advanced) at t10. In fact, while i may not be the best player, i
can work with a 3 skill crew at t10. After these changes .... not
anymore. I will have to overspend on snap shotting, safe stowage
and other 1 crew member only skills even if i want to meet the same
efficiency i had before, not to mention to get the full effect.
They are not the same thing, you are focusing and answering stricly
on levels and points, when you should know that some skills are
more expensive than others.HeatResistantBFG: I first saw advertisements for WoT in... 2011? Maybe 2012 but
my pc couldn't handle it (64mb video card in a system bought from
Aldi for about 60 quid 
) so I got into the Xbox 360 beta
in around late 2012/early 2013, right at the start of it. Have been
around since then and following things, reading many articles and
for a long time, I knew pretty much every stat of ever tier 5+ tank
A skill I showed off to Ph3lan,
Crysantos and jingles in person in 2017 (IIRC, it was one of the 2
I met Ph3lan at back then, can't remember which) but I admit with
1.0 I paid a lot less attention and have been relearning stuff
since November (when I joined 
) although alas i would suck at that skill
now. As TLDR as I can with my history with WoT
lol Planning for something to go through doesn't mean it won't
change though and I would argue the 2 changes announced as "we will
address this" being so quick should be proof of that. If something
is dropped it doesn't mean it is wasted, as you said, a lot of time
will have gone into it, what it will mean is it gets put in a file
somewhere or back to a dev team to be "made better". Example would
be first ammo changes that were brought to the sandbox, was deemed
a big swing and a miss but at least we're trying. So we have
started again with the recent HE rework, going more in-depth for
the changes and doing a bit at a time (not all ammo's at once). And
as much as it was hard for some to accept, of the over 70k survey
results from the HE Rework, 70% were positive. That will now be
looked at based on all the feedback and will probably reappear with
changes and to be tested again. So i think there is a lot of
support to me saying "it's just a test" because it really
is. In terms of the latter bit, I'm more in your shoes on pc.
My best crews have 3/4 perks depending on if they have 0 point
skills, so 3 basically. Now, most of those have 6th sense +
repairs/concealment slot 1 (depending on tank) and then BIA slot 2,
then 3rd slot as you say, snapshot and such things + maybe the
completion of repairs. So that's 6? skills maybe... let's work
with 6 as the comparison point. Now I love doing captain builds and
min-max builds and this sorta thing, i play WoWs and I think I
spent a week doing builds for me and my friends in theory-crafting
before I even played I could have instantly jumped in,
but I wanted to "run the numbers". In any of my replies around this
area, I have been doing the same thing and looking at builds to
match/beat what would be in the live server. The big difference
with crew 2.0, to me, seems to be that you focus on what you want
to do most with the tank and emphasise it, rather than "flattening
the curve" sort of approach that tends to happen on the live
(again, IMO). Hopefully, this will create more variation and mean
that unlike now, when you meet the same tank in battle it isn't
"well who has the better crew" it's "Oh... what build is he
running?" because there are half a dozen or more ways you can make
any 1 tank work, and actually work, in a way that suits you.
Back on track So comparing to a crew with 6
perks fully trained aka a 3 perk crew, which would give you a 45
point crew on sandbox. Well off the bat 6th sense is free so yay,
won't get into not having to grind to 100% crew but that really
should be a consideration IMO, So let's start with the other
default 2, BIA + repairs/concealment. Well Cohesion is the new BIA,
and then repairs and concealment are both more powerful on the
sandbox (i saw someone's vid saying 4 points in repairs is the same
as fully trained on live IIRC, so gonna stick with that, correct me
if I got it wrong) I think it's similar with concealment but
I'd still wanna go all 10, so let's work against myself here and go
concealment. So that's 20 points spent for BIA + Concealment, with
the caveat of concealment being far strong. So that makes us 20
spent and have 3, but we have 25 left to get 4 more. Let's go with
a light tank or a stealth medium, and so okay, I'll go with 10
points into eyes open and 10 into either quick reaction for that
aim boost for snapshots (kinda better for mediums in this
hypothetical) or target tracking (Works on either really). So
that's 40 spent for 5, except you get the bonus perk choice of
fighting spirit or team spirit, which in turn (can) give you a 2nd
BIA but with 50% more (5% compared to 7.5%). So now we're up to 6
with 5 points left, then I'm gonna put 5 into adrenaline rush to
get that 25% health triggers 7% reload buff. So that's all points
spent right? Welll not exactly because now I can use 3 instructors
to add another potential 9 points. So I'm thinking of this as a
more aggressive light, so I would try to put some of that into
close combat for any circling or going in on people, and then the
rest on eyes open to counter recon+situional awareness having a
greater bonus. The net result of that is I have a better in almost
(if not) every way crew that on the live server at the exact same
level. Not in this thread but I'd be happy to have build
discussions with people, there for sure will be examples the
other way too, where a build is less impactful on the sandbox...
But I'm just pointing out with hyper-focused builds you can easily
have much more impactful set-ups
) so I got into the Xbox 360 beta
in around late 2012/early 2013, right at the start of it. Have been
around since then and following things, reading many articles and
for a long time, I knew pretty much every stat of ever tier 5+ tank
A skill I showed off to Ph3lan,
Crysantos and jingles in person in 2017 (IIRC, it was one of the 2
I met Ph3lan at back then, can't remember which) but I admit with
1.0 I paid a lot less attention and have been relearning stuff
since November (when I joined ) although alas i would suck at that skill
now. As TLDR as I can with my history with WoT
lol Planning for something to go through doesn't mean it won't
change though and I would argue the 2 changes announced as "we will
address this" being so quick should be proof of that. If something
is dropped it doesn't mean it is wasted, as you said, a lot of time
will have gone into it, what it will mean is it gets put in a file
somewhere or back to a dev team to be "made better". Example would
be first ammo changes that were brought to the sandbox, was deemed
a big swing and a miss but at least we're trying. So we have
started again with the recent HE rework, going more in-depth for
the changes and doing a bit at a time (not all ammo's at once). And
as much as it was hard for some to accept, of the over 70k survey
results from the HE Rework, 70% were positive. That will now be
looked at based on all the feedback and will probably reappear with
changes and to be tested again. So i think there is a lot of
support to me saying "it's just a test" because it really
is. In terms of the latter bit, I'm more in your shoes on pc.
My best crews have 3/4 perks depending on if they have 0 point
skills, so 3 basically. Now, most of those have 6th sense +
repairs/concealment slot 1 (depending on tank) and then BIA slot 2,
then 3rd slot as you say, snapshot and such things + maybe the
completion of repairs. So that's 6? skills maybe... let's work
with 6 as the comparison point. Now I love doing captain builds and
min-max builds and this sorta thing, i play WoWs and I think I
spent a week doing builds for me and my friends in theory-crafting
before I even played I could have instantly jumped in,
but I wanted to "run the numbers". In any of my replies around this
area, I have been doing the same thing and looking at builds to
match/beat what would be in the live server. The big difference
with crew 2.0, to me, seems to be that you focus on what you want
to do most with the tank and emphasise it, rather than "flattening
the curve" sort of approach that tends to happen on the live
(again, IMO). Hopefully, this will create more variation and mean
that unlike now, when you meet the same tank in battle it isn't
"well who has the better crew" it's "Oh... what build is he
running?" because there are half a dozen or more ways you can make
any 1 tank work, and actually work, in a way that suits you.Back on track
So comparing to a crew with 6
perks fully trained aka a 3 perk crew, which would give you a 45
point crew on sandbox. Well off the bat 6th sense is free so yay,
won't get into not having to grind to 100% crew but that really
should be a consideration IMO, So let's start with the other
default 2, BIA + repairs/concealment. Well Cohesion is the new BIA,
and then repairs and concealment are both more powerful on the
sandbox (i saw someone's vid saying 4 points in repairs is the same
as fully trained on live IIRC, so gonna stick with that, correct me
if I got it wrong) I think it's similar with concealment but
I'd still wanna go all 10, so let's work against myself here and go
concealment. So that's 20 points spent for BIA + Concealment, with
the caveat of concealment being far strong. So that makes us 20
spent and have 3, but we have 25 left to get 4 more. Let's go with
a light tank or a stealth medium, and so okay, I'll go with 10
points into eyes open and 10 into either quick reaction for that
aim boost for snapshots (kinda better for mediums in this
hypothetical) or target tracking (Works on either really). So
that's 40 spent for 5, except you get the bonus perk choice of
fighting spirit or team spirit, which in turn (can) give you a 2nd
BIA but with 50% more (5% compared to 7.5%). So now we're up to 6
with 5 points left, then I'm gonna put 5 into adrenaline rush to
get that 25% health triggers 7% reload buff. So that's all points
spent right? Welll not exactly because now I can use 3 instructors
to add another potential 9 points. So I'm thinking of this as a
more aggressive light, so I would try to put some of that into
close combat for any circling or going in on people, and then the
rest on eyes open to counter recon+situional awareness having a
greater bonus. The net result of that is I have a better in almost
(if not) every way crew that on the live server at the exact same
level. Not in this thread but I'd be happy to have build
discussions with people, there for sure will be examples the
other way too, where a build is less impactful on the sandbox...
But I'm just pointing out with hyper-focused builds you can easily
have much more impactful set-ups DoomHerald, on 26 February 2021 - 03:44 PM, said: There are a lot of good things in crew 2.0, but there are also a
lot of issues and misconceptions, which I will point out. 1. I
feel literally robbed, when my 8 skills crew with BiA as a 0 perk
gets converted. In the current version it is trained almost to
the max, only some not very useful skills remain. So now I got
trained about 85% of all skills and perks possible. In Crew 2.0 I
get 75 skill points (plus some additional vehicle handling,
yep), that are soooooo unsufficient! With instructors I can get up
to 83 skill points, which is exactly 33% from 250. From 85% down to
33%!!! The roof must be much much higher, at least 150 skill
points, which are 60% of 250. It may require more crew xp, but the
limit must be much higher than 75. There are so many good and
useful skills is 2.0, but I just cannot train them cos I need to
sacrifice some essentials. Yes, I will get some additional VH, but
this is not a variety at all. So my proposal is to
increase the limit to 150 skill points at the cost of more
crew xp required, and at the same time to reduce the
additional VH to max 10% total. For talents - increase their price
from 30 to 40 SP from the line, so one can have 3 at max. 2. I
feel literally robbed, when all my crews with BiA as a 0
perk now become useless, their value is reduced to normal
crews. Females from old Holiday ops or CW campaigns, males from
marathon tanks. now are totally devalued. No no no!!! 3.
Instructors, as the best of them are very limited, to get random
skills - just NO! 4. Unbalanced new skills - some of them are
extremely strong, some are almost useless. Also - Coherence gives
5% passive and constant bonus to VH, while there are 2 skills,
that give less bonus (2.5%) and only on certain circumstances.
Like, WTF?!?!?! Where is the logic in that?!?!?!HeatResistantBFG: 1. Gonna assume you're taking 25 skills in the game and
saying 250, so firstly 6th sense is default now and costs 0, then
mentor is sort of inbuilt into instructors mixed with you don't
need it to apply to members as you have 1. So that's -2. Also, with
tier 2 instructors they add 3 each, so that means you can have 87
points. The main thing you seem to have missed though is how
impactful the skills and the combo's of them can be. Your main
complaints, as far as I can see, is "I can't have enough of them"
.. well yes... that's the point. Rather than gain lots of skills
that add a bit here or a bit there to things that don't really fit
into the tanks playstyle, you take these smaller number of
hyper-focused skills and have a far more impactful crew. There are
far more "this is too powerful with a strong crew" comments than
"too weak" so you appear to be going against the curve here. That 7
perk crew (if all the first perks are 0 point BIA perks) would
currently become a max crew with an extra 19% crew skill (now
called Vehicle handling) meaning your tank is getting a huge buff.
So I think you need to explore crew 2.0 a bit more because you seem
to have missed a lot of what it offers.2. Well this has already
been addressed and if you read the updated FAQ + announcement on
the first page you'll see that 3. Also this^4. Hang on, number 1
was "this is so much weaker, I need more" and now some of these
skills too strong... Also, they're anything but useless and most
are quite easy to trigger... twitch and youtube are full of people
doing exactly that... and what's the point (logic)? Builds and
situational buffs... like MANY games out there. You may not like
them and feel free not to spec into them, but people have shown
repeatedly triggering several at once and getting 20-25%+ bonuses
to their Vehicle Handling.
3. Also this^4. Hang on, number 1
was "this is so much weaker, I need more" and now some of these
skills too strong... Also, they're anything but useless and most
are quite easy to trigger... twitch and youtube are full of people
doing exactly that... and what's the point (logic)? Builds and
situational buffs... like MANY games out there. You may not like
them and feel free not to spec into them, but people have shown
repeatedly triggering several at once and getting 20-25%+ bonuses
to their Vehicle Handling. Akathis, on 26 February 2021 - 04:01 PM, said: Real money invested in crews training. Real money invested in
barrack slots. Real money invested in crew retraining. Real money
invested in having missions done in order to get 0skill crews.
Real money invested in tanks because of the advertised 0skill
crew. And now WG wants to wipe out every virtual good related to
crews that has been purchased with real money along these years.
This is not Russia.HeatResistantBFG: Crew training books add XP, that XP is converted... so
nothing lost?Barracks slots get turned into crew reset tokens
which have the same gold value, so also not lostCrew retraining...
Well you got to use the crew and then earn xp on it by it being at
100% training... so you're also keeping thatAgain, has been
addressed, it's on the first page ^
I guess, see all the above?
And finally, what has Russia got to do with anything? Ignoring that the company isn't Russian, the HQ isn't in Russia and the CEO aren't Russian... You're trying to imply that we're just stealing your money, which isn't suddenly okay in Russia? The country isn't some mass game of "finders keepers"
^I guess, see all the above?
And finally, what has Russia got to do with anything? Ignoring that the company isn't Russian, the HQ isn't in Russia and the CEO aren't Russian... You're trying to imply that we're just stealing your money, which isn't suddenly okay in Russia? The country isn't some mass game of "finders keepers"
Sandbox 2021: Try Out Crew 2.0! - **Updated - Read Original Post**