Ordnance vs AGF: Pershing Part 2
Дата: 31.05.2014 01:41:28
The_Chieftain: For Part 2 of the Pershing development overview, I’m going to hand
the keyboard over to some poor un-named sod in the Ordnance Branch
in about 1946 whose job it was to type out Ordnance’s after-action
report for the war. One part of this AAR was “Ordnance’s
interactions with other agencies”, and for the section on ‘dealing
with Army Ground Forces’, they chose to use the T26 development
process as an example. I thus copy below, again without comment
(I’ll save the analysis for a future part), with the caveat that
the below is purely from Ordnance’s perspective. Over to you,
aforementioned poor, un-named sod:
The chasm separating the AGF position and the Ordnance
position regarding the development role of the Ordnance Department
is most evident in the controversy relative to heavy tanks. This
dispute was increased in intensity by another difference of opinion
as to the value of heavy tanks. Lt. Gen. Lesley J. McNair,
Commanding General, AGF, was one of thefounders of the school of
thought which held that the best defense against armor was
armament, that tank-versus-tank battles were neither necessary nor
desirable. This school of thought, therefore, did not believe
it imperative that the United States remain at least abreast
of Germany as regards the size of tanks. One type of heavy tank,
the M6, weighing about 60 tons and mounting a three-inch gun, had
been standardized in February 1942, before the creation
of Army Ground Forces. This tank was not put to any appreciable
use, however, because Ordnance attempts to create a requirement for
the M6 were rebuffed by AGF and production of only 40 of these
tanks was authorized.
While the Heavy Tank M6 was being written
off as a usable combat vehicle, the Ordnance Department, with the
approval of Services of Supply, had begun the development of a
new medium tank, the T20, which wall expected to take the
place of the Medium Tank M4. As the T20 developed, it grew heavier
until it reached in the T25 and T26 models, the proportions of a
heavy tank. From whence came the impetus for the construction
of these heavy tanks (the T25 was to be a
medium tank mounting a 90-mm gun and the T26 was to mount the 90-mm
gun and armor equivalent to that of the German Mark VI) is
subject to debate between AGF and the Ordnance Department. AGF was
of the opinion that "the using arms desired development of this
type of vehicle with heavier armor and a 90-mm gun.” In
writing the Ordnance Committee Minute suggesting
development of the heavier tanks, however, Ordnance reported
that "the Ordnance Department requested that at
least 50 tanks be equipped with 90-mm guns which was
agreed to by General Devers (Armored Force) and General Moore
(AGF)." Representatives or the armored Force and the Tank Destroyer
Command signed this proposal on behalf of the using arms.
Devers. The T26 tank received some potent backing in
November 1943 when General Devers, erstwhile commander of the
Armored Force and at that time commander of the European Theater of
Operations, requested that 250 be produced. Production of only ten
of these tanks had been previously authorized. As the
developer and enthusiastic believer in the value of the
T26, Ordnance was entirely willing to accede to the request of
General Devers. When asked to comment on the ETO request, AGF made
two replies, both unfavorable. In these memoranda, one prepared
personally by General McNair, AGF contended that
the M4 series of tanks was adequate for the
defeat of Germany and that these tanks, plus a suitable
tank destroyer, were the logical answer to the heavier German
tanks. It was recommended that the T26 continue to
be considered only a developmental type. Despite the
objections of AGF, General Devers, in December 1943,
repeated his request that 250 heavy tanks of the T26 type
be produced. Personnel of the Requirements Section, AGF,
recommended that General McNair repeat the AGF objections, claiming
that no heavy tank had yet been found satisfactory. That torsion
bar suspension had never been used before on tanks even half as
heavy as the T26, and that the adequacy of the
power plant proposed for the new heavy tank was
questionable. General McNair, however, refused to continue this
aspect or the controversy and raised no further objection to the
procurement of a total of 260 T26 tanks. Although General Barnes
was reasonably certain on 11 December 1943 (the day after General
Devers' second cablegram) that Ordnance would be allowed to build
the additional 250 heavy tanks, official notification of the change
in the program was not received by the Ordnance Department
until 10 January 1944. Despite the fact that Ordnance had
been allowed to proceed with the limited procurement of 250
additional units of the T26 this number was not sufficient to
assure creation of the production capacity which would be necessary
should the War Department decide to go into mass production of the
heavy tank. Ordnance, therefore, was anxious to receive authority
for limited procurement of a still larger quantity. Ten days after
receipt of permission to procure the additional 250 vehicles,
General Barnes met with General Moore of AGF and expressed the
hope that AGF would "go along with the program on the T26 (the size
of the proposed procurement program was not indicated)," but
General Moore did not hold the proposal in favorable regard. More
evidence of disagreement between the Ordnance Department
and AGF concerning the value of the T26 tank is given in a February
1944 conversation between General Barnes and Colonel M. K. Barroll,
an Ordnance officer serving with the General staff. Colonel
Barroll reported that he had "heard they (presumably AGF) want to
put a lot of armor on the last of the M4A3s off the line and
was afraid the main idea is to buck the heavy (T26) job. General
Barnes asked Colonel Barroll to "watch" the situation. Apparently
no action was being taken by higher authority to increase the
number of heavy tanks under procurement because by 28 February
1944 General Barnes was discussing the preparation of a letter to
Headquarters Army Service Forces, for the signature of
General Campbell, asking whether or not the War Department desired
heavily armored tanks and, if so, at what rate of production. It
was General Barnes’ opinion that further production of M4 tanks was
a waste of government funds. No such letter was ever sent, although
General Banes continued upset over the situation, two days later
telling General William A. Borden, another Ordnance officer on duty
with the General Starr, that he was in favor of informing higher
authority that the Ordnance Department would assume no further
responsibility for the probable lack of properly armored and
properly gunned tanks for operations of late 1944 and early 1945.
In the following month, however, AGF opposition to larger
production of the T26 was overridden and production of
6,000 heavytanks (including 45 both T25 and T26
models) was informally authorized. A break in the deadlock between
Ordnance and AGF was foreshadowed 5 April 1944 when
Robert E. Patterson, Undersecretary of War, telephoned
General Barnes to tell him that Lt Gen William S. Knudsen, War
Department production director, had been talking about the new
tanks. Mr. Patterson expressed interest in the vehicle and said he
would like to see the new tanks produced in 1944 and inquired as to
what should be done to bring about that end. General Barnes
suggested that Mr. Patterson talk to General Somervell about
getting a production order released. The need for production of the
larger number of heavy tanks was made known to the Ordnance
Department within a week. General Barnes told his Executive
Officer, Colonel S. B. Ritchie, that the large order had come as a
result of a reversalof AGF position with respect to heavy
tanks. Army Ground Forces, however, said that the
production authorization had been increased by the War Department
over AGF objections.
Even though it had been overruled with respect
to the extent of limited production of heavy tanks, AGF
continued dissatisfied with these vehicles and asked that 75mm and
76mm guns replace the 90mm guns
included in the basic design of both the T25 and
T26. AGF had been pondering such a request
in April 1944, but delayed making it until July.
Army Service Forces agreed to a study of the
possibilities of the lighter guns on these tanks and passed the
letter to Ordnance. The Ordnance Department was merely lukewarm to
this proposal, suggesting that it be given low priority, since
Ordnance already had formal authorization for completion of the
development 'of the tank mounting the 90mm gun and all
available personnel were at work on that project. It was also
pointed out that the 75-mm gun was currently available on
the new M24 Light Tank, the 76-mm gunon the M4
Medium Tank. Army Ground Forces did not belabor the issue, merely
asking that study of the lighter guns beundertaken when
current projects were completed. In the beginning of this
discussion of the size of the gun to be mounted on
the T26, General Campbell told General Barnes he would be
inclined to include the 90-mm turret on the vehicles
coming off the production lines, pending the outcome of the
controversy. All T26 tanks produced mounted the 90-mm gun.
The argument over heavy tanks was actually a three-sided one,
the Armored Force holding views which failed to coincide with those
of either Headquarters, AGF, or the Ordnance Department. Since the
Armored Force was a component of Army Ground Forces,
however, the differences of opinion, "which were fought
out bitterly around 1943" were brought to a decisionwithin AGF
and a more or less united-front presented to the Ordnance
Department. The Armored Force point of view, as seen.by the
Ordnance officer attached to Headquarters, AGF, was
generally as follows: "The policy of the Armored Force was that the
M-4 medium tank was already in large production and was the one
tank that could be delivered in quantity for the operations in
1944. Therefore they felt that the first priority on development
should be the elimination of the bugs from the M-4 tank to
make this vehicle as effective as possible on the battlefield.
Following this development they proposed to modify the M-4 tank to
provide it with the 90-mm gun in order to get this weapon on the
battlefield by 1944. It was the feeling of the Armored Force Board
that General Barnes and Colonel Colby of the Ordnance Department,
by dropping the development of the M-4 type tank and proceeding
with an entirely different and new design as exemplified in the T20
series of tanks which was finally standardized as the M-26, would
not be able to get the service tested tank in the theaters in
quantity in time to be of any real value. They felt that the M-4
modified to incorporate the 90mm gun would enable them to get tanks
with high powered guns in the theater in time to be used in 1944. I
am told that it was General McNair himself who ruled against the
installationof the 90mm gun the M-4 tanks. In making this decision
I understand he acted on the advice of his G-3, General Lentz,
rather than the Development Section of his Requirements Division.'
That's it for now. Next time we return to this topic, we shall
likely have a look at just how the Zebra mission got off the
ground. For those of you who don't know, I've
a Facebook
page here , and once in a blue moon, I stream
at http://www.twitch.tv/the_chieftain
The chasm separating the AGF position and the Ordnance
position regarding the development role of the Ordnance Department
is most evident in the controversy relative to heavy tanks. This
dispute was increased in intensity by another difference of opinion
as to the value of heavy tanks. Lt. Gen. Lesley J. McNair,
Commanding General, AGF, was one of thefounders of the school of
thought which held that the best defense against armor was
armament, that tank-versus-tank battles were neither necessary nor
desirable. This school of thought, therefore, did not believe
it imperative that the United States remain at least abreast
of Germany as regards the size of tanks. One type of heavy tank,
the M6, weighing about 60 tons and mounting a three-inch gun, had
been standardized in February 1942, before the creation
of Army Ground Forces. This tank was not put to any appreciable
use, however, because Ordnance attempts to create a requirement for
the M6 were rebuffed by AGF and production of only 40 of these
tanks was authorized.
While the Heavy Tank M6 was being written
off as a usable combat vehicle, the Ordnance Department, with the
approval of Services of Supply, had begun the development of a
new medium tank, the T20, which wall expected to take the
place of the Medium Tank M4. As the T20 developed, it grew heavier
until it reached in the T25 and T26 models, the proportions of a
heavy tank. From whence came the impetus for the construction
of these heavy tanks (the T25 was to be a
medium tank mounting a 90-mm gun and the T26 was to mount the 90-mm
gun and armor equivalent to that of the German Mark VI) is
subject to debate between AGF and the Ordnance Department. AGF was
of the opinion that "the using arms desired development of this
type of vehicle with heavier armor and a 90-mm gun.” In
writing the Ordnance Committee Minute suggesting
development of the heavier tanks, however, Ordnance reported
that "the Ordnance Department requested that at
least 50 tanks be equipped with 90-mm guns which was
agreed to by General Devers (Armored Force) and General Moore
(AGF)." Representatives or the armored Force and the Tank Destroyer
Command signed this proposal on behalf of the using arms.
Devers. The T26 tank received some potent backing in
November 1943 when General Devers, erstwhile commander of the
Armored Force and at that time commander of the European Theater of
Operations, requested that 250 be produced. Production of only ten
of these tanks had been previously authorized. As the
developer and enthusiastic believer in the value of the
T26, Ordnance was entirely willing to accede to the request of
General Devers. When asked to comment on the ETO request, AGF made
two replies, both unfavorable. In these memoranda, one prepared
personally by General McNair, AGF contended that
the M4 series of tanks was adequate for the
defeat of Germany and that these tanks, plus a suitable
tank destroyer, were the logical answer to the heavier German
tanks. It was recommended that the T26 continue to
be considered only a developmental type. Despite the
objections of AGF, General Devers, in December 1943,
repeated his request that 250 heavy tanks of the T26 type
be produced. Personnel of the Requirements Section, AGF,
recommended that General McNair repeat the AGF objections, claiming
that no heavy tank had yet been found satisfactory. That torsion
bar suspension had never been used before on tanks even half as
heavy as the T26, and that the adequacy of the
power plant proposed for the new heavy tank was
questionable. General McNair, however, refused to continue this
aspect or the controversy and raised no further objection to the
procurement of a total of 260 T26 tanks. Although General Barnes
was reasonably certain on 11 December 1943 (the day after General
Devers' second cablegram) that Ordnance would be allowed to build
the additional 250 heavy tanks, official notification of the change
in the program was not received by the Ordnance Department
until 10 January 1944. Despite the fact that Ordnance had
been allowed to proceed with the limited procurement of 250
additional units of the T26 this number was not sufficient to
assure creation of the production capacity which would be necessary
should the War Department decide to go into mass production of the
heavy tank. Ordnance, therefore, was anxious to receive authority
for limited procurement of a still larger quantity. Ten days after
receipt of permission to procure the additional 250 vehicles,
General Barnes met with General Moore of AGF and expressed the
hope that AGF would "go along with the program on the T26 (the size
of the proposed procurement program was not indicated)," but
General Moore did not hold the proposal in favorable regard. More
evidence of disagreement between the Ordnance Department
and AGF concerning the value of the T26 tank is given in a February
1944 conversation between General Barnes and Colonel M. K. Barroll,
an Ordnance officer serving with the General staff. Colonel
Barroll reported that he had "heard they (presumably AGF) want to
put a lot of armor on the last of the M4A3s off the line and
was afraid the main idea is to buck the heavy (T26) job. General
Barnes asked Colonel Barroll to "watch" the situation. Apparently
no action was being taken by higher authority to increase the
number of heavy tanks under procurement because by 28 February
1944 General Barnes was discussing the preparation of a letter to
Headquarters Army Service Forces, for the signature of
General Campbell, asking whether or not the War Department desired
heavily armored tanks and, if so, at what rate of production. It
was General Barnes’ opinion that further production of M4 tanks was
a waste of government funds. No such letter was ever sent, although
General Banes continued upset over the situation, two days later
telling General William A. Borden, another Ordnance officer on duty
with the General Starr, that he was in favor of informing higher
authority that the Ordnance Department would assume no further
responsibility for the probable lack of properly armored and
properly gunned tanks for operations of late 1944 and early 1945.
In the following month, however, AGF opposition to larger
production of the T26 was overridden and production of
6,000 heavytanks (including 45 both T25 and T26
models) was informally authorized. A break in the deadlock between
Ordnance and AGF was foreshadowed 5 April 1944 when
Robert E. Patterson, Undersecretary of War, telephoned
General Barnes to tell him that Lt Gen William S. Knudsen, War
Department production director, had been talking about the new
tanks. Mr. Patterson expressed interest in the vehicle and said he
would like to see the new tanks produced in 1944 and inquired as to
what should be done to bring about that end. General Barnes
suggested that Mr. Patterson talk to General Somervell about
getting a production order released. The need for production of the
larger number of heavy tanks was made known to the Ordnance
Department within a week. General Barnes told his Executive
Officer, Colonel S. B. Ritchie, that the large order had come as a
result of a reversalof AGF position with respect to heavy
tanks. Army Ground Forces, however, said that the
production authorization had been increased by the War Department
over AGF objections.
Even though it had been overruled with respect
to the extent of limited production of heavy tanks, AGF
continued dissatisfied with these vehicles and asked that 75mm and
76mm guns replace the 90mm guns
included in the basic design of both the T25 and
T26. AGF had been pondering such a request
in April 1944, but delayed making it until July.
Army Service Forces agreed to a study of the
possibilities of the lighter guns on these tanks and passed the
letter to Ordnance. The Ordnance Department was merely lukewarm to
this proposal, suggesting that it be given low priority, since
Ordnance already had formal authorization for completion of the
development 'of the tank mounting the 90mm gun and all
available personnel were at work on that project. It was also
pointed out that the 75-mm gun was currently available on
the new M24 Light Tank, the 76-mm gunon the M4
Medium Tank. Army Ground Forces did not belabor the issue, merely
asking that study of the lighter guns beundertaken when
current projects were completed. In the beginning of this
discussion of the size of the gun to be mounted on
the T26, General Campbell told General Barnes he would be
inclined to include the 90-mm turret on the vehicles
coming off the production lines, pending the outcome of the
controversy. All T26 tanks produced mounted the 90-mm gun.
The argument over heavy tanks was actually a three-sided one,
the Armored Force holding views which failed to coincide with those
of either Headquarters, AGF, or the Ordnance Department. Since the
Armored Force was a component of Army Ground Forces,
however, the differences of opinion, "which were fought
out bitterly around 1943" were brought to a decisionwithin AGF
and a more or less united-front presented to the Ordnance
Department. The Armored Force point of view, as seen.by the
Ordnance officer attached to Headquarters, AGF, was
generally as follows: "The policy of the Armored Force was that the
M-4 medium tank was already in large production and was the one
tank that could be delivered in quantity for the operations in
1944. Therefore they felt that the first priority on development
should be the elimination of the bugs from the M-4 tank to
make this vehicle as effective as possible on the battlefield.
Following this development they proposed to modify the M-4 tank to
provide it with the 90-mm gun in order to get this weapon on the
battlefield by 1944. It was the feeling of the Armored Force Board
that General Barnes and Colonel Colby of the Ordnance Department,
by dropping the development of the M-4 type tank and proceeding
with an entirely different and new design as exemplified in the T20
series of tanks which was finally standardized as the M-26, would
not be able to get the service tested tank in the theaters in
quantity in time to be of any real value. They felt that the M-4
modified to incorporate the 90mm gun would enable them to get tanks
with high powered guns in the theater in time to be used in 1944. I
am told that it was General McNair himself who ruled against the
installationof the 90mm gun the M-4 tanks. In making this decision
I understand he acted on the advice of his G-3, General Lentz,
rather than the Development Section of his Requirements Division.'
That's it for now. Next time we return to this topic, we shall
likely have a look at just how the Zebra mission got off the
ground. For those of you who don't know, I've
a Facebook
page here , and once in a blue moon, I stream
at http://www.twitch.tv/the_chieftainOrdnance vs AGF: Pershing Part 2














