Is HE damage too high?
Дата: 12.09.2010 04:33:03
EndlessWaves, on 11 September 2010 - 08:41 PM, said: Yesterday I was playing a game in Lakeville with my IS-7 and no
artillery on either team. I started out in the base at the top and
went down the far left road above the town. I'd got past the dip
near the church and was onto the road between two houses when I
spotted several enemies ahead and stopped. There was definitely a
Jadgtiger and 4502 there as well as an IS and seemingly one or two
more hidden by the bushes.So I was sitting there in the road between two houses in my heavy with my front armour towards the enemy, with allies behind me and a fairly long route to flank me, the perfect situation for a heavy tank.
Bang Bang Bang, ten seconds later I was dead and the enemy was driving around my wreck. Now the jadgtiger could obviously have damaged me with AP if he had got the upgraded cannon but I'd have killed him first and the rest should never have been able to shoot me in the front (except for maybe precisely aimed shots from the 4502).
And this wasn't just me getting unlucky, there was another IS-7 on the team and he was the last tank alive. He was in the corner of our base waiting for the enemy to come and capture it. He shot a hummel, saw a group of enemies coming and backed around the corner onto the boggy ground.
The group (Jadgtiger, VK4502, IS, Jadgpanther) followed him and shot him to death with the distinctive yellow of HE rounds before he could get more than one or two shots off. And while he would likely have died to that group if they'd been using AP they didn't even bother to flank him, just spread out enough that they weren't shooting each other and shot him with HE in the front armour.
Somebody may say that it's all about team work and that they won because their tanks worked together better and concentrated their fire which is true but beside the point. A game with more tactical possibilities like the ability to defend or block with a single tank while others are flanking is a much more interesting and longer lived one.
HE needs to be toned down significantly on cannons that can't penetrate front armour but can penetrate rear armour while not being made completely useless for lower tier tanks that can't penetrate their opponent at all.
p.s. Please keep artillery out of this topic, that's a separate issue.
MrVic: Found this interesting. After recent testing of the HE changes
since the last patch, HE is massively lowered. Most players run AP
that I know of. I have run HE vs heavies lights ect. Seems to be in
line actually much lower then the Real world versions effects.
The IS-7 with its armor and its slope, you have to remember the listed numbers do not mean every inch of the tank on that facing is that thickness. Also its never a simple matter of armor X thickness vs Y penetration. Their is variance in the armor pen of all weapons. Also the listed tanks fighting IS-7s are quite capable of penetrating the armor in some/many places on a IS-7 it all comes down to where you shoot at or where you hit. Also sloped armor can be reduced and negated by positioning. Its all geometry, almost no shot is purely a level shot at a perfectly square target armor facing.
IS-7 hull 150mm Turret 210mm
Your facing off:
IS Lowest armor pen weapon 144mm average of their weapons 175mm upper end 225mm. Hull shots are possible even turret with variance chances odds are, weak spots on tank plenty of punch for those.
4502 base armor Pen 200mm Hull np even chance on turret with some luck, better gun 225mm pen through turret and through the hull. Granted slope can save you a good but but with some good angles and geometry you can negate a lot of slopes depends on the players.
Jagtiger base 246mm pen top end 276mm pen, its got enough punch to pretty much poke a hole in you at will. Slope does kick in and help bounce many shots for sure. (done quite a few myself) But closer the ranges the better at hitting weak armor spots and parts of your tank the slopes are lessened or negated for better chances (applies for all tanks)
Jagpanther 132 pen low end, 200-203mm pen average. Hull and soft spots quite capable, Even the 132 if you place a real good shot into a weaker spot could do some damage but would be hard.
Rear shots on turret or hull from any of these tanks will go through your armor like butter. So if you turret traverse to shoot at once odds are your turret rear was starting to face another in many fights. Also all were capable of dishing out damage through frontal armor with no issues for the most part with AP.
I have extensively played a IS-7 and getting head on with a Jagtiger alone would lead to a fast death especially vs one that was a good shot
Unless you know what all the people
were firing its hard to really know even with trying to see certain
graphics for certain rounds, Many of my AP rounds hit and "splash
yellow"
Figured this might help clear it up some. Currently I do not know if each rounds have special looks all the time from all tanks, Its something I will look into.
For me HE is way way toned down and working fine for me in any of my tanks.
Also in my many days in a IS-7 some battles you feel indestructible due to luck and averages panning out in your favor others many you just get rocked due to angles geometry ect. But if I ran head long into that pile of tanks I would expect to last a very short period of time.
The IS-7 with its armor and its slope, you have to remember the listed numbers do not mean every inch of the tank on that facing is that thickness. Also its never a simple matter of armor X thickness vs Y penetration. Their is variance in the armor pen of all weapons. Also the listed tanks fighting IS-7s are quite capable of penetrating the armor in some/many places on a IS-7 it all comes down to where you shoot at or where you hit. Also sloped armor can be reduced and negated by positioning. Its all geometry, almost no shot is purely a level shot at a perfectly square target armor facing.
IS-7 hull 150mm Turret 210mm
Your facing off:
IS Lowest armor pen weapon 144mm average of their weapons 175mm upper end 225mm. Hull shots are possible even turret with variance chances odds are, weak spots on tank plenty of punch for those.
4502 base armor Pen 200mm Hull np even chance on turret with some luck, better gun 225mm pen through turret and through the hull. Granted slope can save you a good but but with some good angles and geometry you can negate a lot of slopes depends on the players.
Jagtiger base 246mm pen top end 276mm pen, its got enough punch to pretty much poke a hole in you at will. Slope does kick in and help bounce many shots for sure. (done quite a few myself) But closer the ranges the better at hitting weak armor spots and parts of your tank the slopes are lessened or negated for better chances (applies for all tanks)
Jagpanther 132 pen low end, 200-203mm pen average. Hull and soft spots quite capable, Even the 132 if you place a real good shot into a weaker spot could do some damage but would be hard.
Rear shots on turret or hull from any of these tanks will go through your armor like butter. So if you turret traverse to shoot at once odds are your turret rear was starting to face another in many fights. Also all were capable of dishing out damage through frontal armor with no issues for the most part with AP.
I have extensively played a IS-7 and getting head on with a Jagtiger alone would lead to a fast death especially vs one that was a good shot
Unless you know what all the people
were firing its hard to really know even with trying to see certain
graphics for certain rounds, Many of my AP rounds hit and "splash
yellow"Figured this might help clear it up some. Currently I do not know if each rounds have special looks all the time from all tanks, Its something I will look into.
For me HE is way way toned down and working fine for me in any of my tanks.
Also in my many days in a IS-7 some battles you feel indestructible due to luck and averages panning out in your favor others many you just get rocked due to angles geometry ect. But if I ran head long into that pile of tanks I would expect to last a very short period of time.
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