HE vs AP
Дата: 19.07.2010 23:06:42
MrVic: Just an example of where I think the HE issues lie. Take a
JagdPanther 45 degree front slope 80mm armor.
You fire a AP round with 165mm penetration. You have rather high odds of bouncing that shell, due to the fact that AP rounds hit solid and therefore have a greater chance of the slope coming into play. IF you fire a HE round it will still have a chance to bounce off due to the slope but more then likely its impact will generate enough force back onto the warhead of the round itself to detonate the HE explosives in the round. So AP bounces more on heavy targets where the HE round bounces less and causes damage due to its less effected by the slope of the armor.
In game example 7.5cm L70 Stug III. AP rounds 6 shots frontal facing dead on range about 150 yards. 1 Penetrating hit for 14% damage, 2 dinged hits for 1% each and 3 bounces no damage. Same weapon same tank same position, HE round is 5 shots of HE fired. First one hits 9% HP loss, 2nd 8% Hp loss, 3rd 12% Hp loss, 4th 10% loss, 5th one 11% loss.
Plus a handful of module damage (if I remember right I got 2 crew, the engine, knocked out the gun, hit the tracks 3 times, and their radio with HE rounds)
This was in a battle and watched it play out in game. The problem I have is the HE is doing lots of module damage and in most cases its better then AP so regardless of being heavily armored or not you get status effects that render you helpless for long periods of times.
Another example same distance almost same facing using a 10.5cm HE rounds on a Jagpanther. Each shot was doing between 16%-24% of its like to the front with 53mm pen vs 80mm 45 degree armor. Even with the impact the 45 degree armor will deflect some of the the force of the HE round and the resulting concussion wave. While this does not mean its immune but the results are significantly less.
The HE power is seen more the larger HE guns then the high velocity guns due to the High velocity guns use typically smaller rounds, making the HE load size smaller.
Keep in mind that sure HE does send a concussion force their a armored plate into the tank and can cause internal armor fragments to spray into the tank combined with spawling of the mettle due to the force. BUT the thicker the armor plate the more energy it takes to transfer energy through. More width of armor helps disperse the load of the energy wave (concussion) into and down through the plating not to mention the resistance of a denser material. Also since the force hits originating at the face of armored plate much of that energy will be spread out away from the tank. Pressure is much like electricity much of it will take he path of least resistance. So air thinner then metal meaning you lose a ton of the explosive force to surroundings.
In summary small HE rounds vs heavy armored plating can have a very minimal effect. Right now the small HE rounds are transferring way to much damage into heavy armor and doing module damage that would not happen due to smaller kinetic force being applied. So your in a KV-3/IS/Tiger ect and some 50mm comes plastering you with HE you can starting losing lots of odd ball stuff when that round is incapable of really doing that much concussive force to those inside the tank or many of its systems. Toss in the non stop track damage they cause and you get a immobile Heavy that is half dead inside while SPG bomb it to death and the heavy has no chance to move escape or fight back.
<--- has lost a KV to 3 panzer Aus A's from 100% and never getting to fire a single shot due to the HE and probably some AP and combined trickle through damage with a side order of non stop immobilized/turret locked/gun destroyed/crew dead/engine destroyed. It took over a min for them to kill me. I fired one shot when it started lol and did nothing else but pound on the keyboard until I died to no avail
Special gold ammo right now is inferior in some cases to HE rounds since their in essence free
Hope that explains my experiences/testing
You fire a AP round with 165mm penetration. You have rather high odds of bouncing that shell, due to the fact that AP rounds hit solid and therefore have a greater chance of the slope coming into play. IF you fire a HE round it will still have a chance to bounce off due to the slope but more then likely its impact will generate enough force back onto the warhead of the round itself to detonate the HE explosives in the round. So AP bounces more on heavy targets where the HE round bounces less and causes damage due to its less effected by the slope of the armor.
In game example 7.5cm L70 Stug III. AP rounds 6 shots frontal facing dead on range about 150 yards. 1 Penetrating hit for 14% damage, 2 dinged hits for 1% each and 3 bounces no damage. Same weapon same tank same position, HE round is 5 shots of HE fired. First one hits 9% HP loss, 2nd 8% Hp loss, 3rd 12% Hp loss, 4th 10% loss, 5th one 11% loss.
Plus a handful of module damage (if I remember right I got 2 crew, the engine, knocked out the gun, hit the tracks 3 times, and their radio with HE rounds)
This was in a battle and watched it play out in game. The problem I have is the HE is doing lots of module damage and in most cases its better then AP so regardless of being heavily armored or not you get status effects that render you helpless for long periods of times.
Another example same distance almost same facing using a 10.5cm HE rounds on a Jagpanther. Each shot was doing between 16%-24% of its like to the front with 53mm pen vs 80mm 45 degree armor. Even with the impact the 45 degree armor will deflect some of the the force of the HE round and the resulting concussion wave. While this does not mean its immune but the results are significantly less.
The HE power is seen more the larger HE guns then the high velocity guns due to the High velocity guns use typically smaller rounds, making the HE load size smaller.
Keep in mind that sure HE does send a concussion force their a armored plate into the tank and can cause internal armor fragments to spray into the tank combined with spawling of the mettle due to the force. BUT the thicker the armor plate the more energy it takes to transfer energy through. More width of armor helps disperse the load of the energy wave (concussion) into and down through the plating not to mention the resistance of a denser material. Also since the force hits originating at the face of armored plate much of that energy will be spread out away from the tank. Pressure is much like electricity much of it will take he path of least resistance. So air thinner then metal meaning you lose a ton of the explosive force to surroundings.
In summary small HE rounds vs heavy armored plating can have a very minimal effect. Right now the small HE rounds are transferring way to much damage into heavy armor and doing module damage that would not happen due to smaller kinetic force being applied. So your in a KV-3/IS/Tiger ect and some 50mm comes plastering you with HE you can starting losing lots of odd ball stuff when that round is incapable of really doing that much concussive force to those inside the tank or many of its systems. Toss in the non stop track damage they cause and you get a immobile Heavy that is half dead inside while SPG bomb it to death and the heavy has no chance to move escape or fight back.
<--- has lost a KV to 3 panzer Aus A's from 100% and never getting to fire a single shot due to the HE and probably some AP and combined trickle through damage with a side order of non stop immobilized/turret locked/gun destroyed/crew dead/engine destroyed. It took over a min for them to kill me. I fired one shot when it started lol and did nothing else but pound on the keyboard until I died to no avail
Special gold ammo right now is inferior in some cases to HE rounds since their in essence free
Hope that explains my experiences/testing
Archives\Beta\HE vs AP