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Why do Some Argue Against Skill Based MM?

Дата: 23.07.2021 19:14:03
View PostMojo_Riesing, on Jul 23 2021 - 17:04, said:   I'm not so much saying the stats are biased, though sometimes i suppose they are, but i have consistently said how they are interpreted CAN be biased. The process of interpretation is where the pitfalls like. If there is a bias, then there is an error that can be identified. Look at the data and then see what it says. Some certain people on this forum know what they want the data to say, and when it doesn't line up, they ignore the data or make up ridiculous things like "the 26 blowouts out of 100 matches on mismatched teams are all due to the skill mismatch, but the 24 blowouts out of 100 matches for balanced teams is due to some other reason. This is SO OBVIOUS! Durr!"

Yes, people are biased!  I certainly am and my point is, so are you.  What we do is almost ALWAYS a reflection of personal bias.  If the numbers spoke for themselves all you'd need do is post them right?  Well, of course not. They need to be interpreted and this audience is no different. That you do so with personal bias is just a consequence of being human, but bias it is nevertheless. From how they are collected, thru presentation bias exists. The numbers do speak for themselves, the problem is most people don't know what to do with them, what thy mean, or how to draw realistic conclusions from them. Just look at SimplySimple's data he uses to try to show that good players will win more then 50% of the 50% chance to win matches. Anyone with a smidgen of common sense is going to have issues with the data, just from the fact that winning more than 50% of a 50% chance to win fights indicates a massive issue. So while the numbers do speak for themselves and indicate there is some issue that needs looked into, SimplySimple jumps right to the conclusion he wants it to have.

Stats will never tell the whole story.  Thinking they will is an error in itself. XVM?  That's just more stats isn't it?  Presented with easy to understand colors. Folks interpret it as they will but mostly it's bling.  Now maybe you don't like it, i guess you don't. I use it because, i actually LIKE the bling. I don't trust it much though, and it doesn't form my opinions.   Keep in mind, most people don't use XVM.  Most people can SEE three Tiers in a match, most people can SEE if there there's a heckuva lot of TD's in a match.  Anyone who takes time can SEE that some players are remarkably better and that they themselves are not, and likely will not be their match. People do not judge the world around  them by numbers or stats, or what someone thinks of either. They judge by what they see and how  they feel. Mocking it is kind of worthless.
"Feelz" may not be the best tool, but it is what most use. That's a fact. It's lot of why this thread, and others like it, continue to live. Yes, and it's why in this day and age, ignorance is still rampant in society. It's why the scientific method is so important, and why technology took off once that method became standard. The scientists didn't have to sit around wasting time trying to win debates with fools. If you have data, present it and your methodology, and anyone can repeat it. If you can't do that, go away. It's amazing what can be accomplished once you don't have to waste time with "clutter."

I can see the teams are not balanced, game by game. I can see the the Tiers, by design, are not balanced.  Walls of numbers don't change that. For myself, i could care less about "blowouts".  I am perplexed by so many here who complain ceaselessly about them and yet are adamantly opposed to leveling (in some way) those same skills.  It's akin to touching a hot stove over and over and complaining it hurts. Kind of comical when i think about it.

I think you, and others, wonder why folks are not convinced by the data you present.  Part of it may be lack of understanding, part of it may be you are biased and wrong but for sure most of it goes to the core issue, and really very simple question that most folks ask. It's why this goes on and on.

The question of course is:  "Is this Fair?"   Remember, this IS just a game after all.  I've said from the beginning, both Random MM and SBMM are fair, and both are unfair in their own way. Part of the issue in this thread is there is a certain someone who refuses to acknowledge both sides, either out of dishonesty or stupidity. Should all players be treated the same? That is fair, and that is Random MM. But now some players win more matches and games can be unbalanced in terms of skill, this is also unfair. Should all matches be balanced so each side has an equal chance to win? That is fair and that is SBMM. But now some players are treated differently, being saddled with worse teammates deliberately, and having an expectation of better performance, for the same result. This is also unfair.  Both are fair and unfair at the same time, depending on your perspective.

DeviouslyCursed:  

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